US citizen, UK med school, US residency, UK practice?

[C-rock]

I am thinking of applying to St. Christopher's College of Medicine. Thing is I am an American but i would really love to move, study, and practice in the UK.

Can anyone offer me advice on what my changes of getting accepted into MED schools in the UK are? Also any information you know/have on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

[Scottish Chap]

I am thinking of applying to St. Christopher's College of Medicine. Thing is I am an American but i would really love to move, study, and practice in the UK.

Can anyone offer me advice on what my changes of getting accepted into MED schools in the UK are? Also any information you know/have on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

It would be impossible for anyone to determine your chances of admission to medical school - in the U.K. or the U.S. - even if you posted your stats. The MCAT is not generally needed (though some schools like Edinburgh will consider it if you score at least: 9, 9, 10). A good GPA will help. You will, however, find it significantly easier to get into St. Christopher's College of Medicine (which is NOT a British medical school, but a satellite campus for a medical school in Senegal, Africa). The general Medical Council in the U.K. has temporarily suspended St. Chris as a degree-awarding entity for physicains intending to practice in the U.K. (pending further investigation): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4410020.stm

If you apply to mainstream British medical schools and they don't grant you admission have you considered Caribbean medical schools? St. Georges in Grenada is much more accessible for North Americans and they have a good track record for setting up third-year clinical rotation in both the U.K. and the U.S. In fact, scome graduates now pratice in the U.K. Good luck!

[southernazn918]

I am currently a junior in the USA. I've been looking into several fast track bs/md programs here in the states, but the shortest I can get them is 6 years. In the UK, i can get my med degree is 5 years. So, I was thinking about going there, getting my med degree, taking the USMLE's and applying for residency back here in the states. The only thing i'm worried about is that in the UK, the med school will prepare me primarily for practise in the UK health care system. Is this true?

Another thing. If i go to the UK and get my med degree there, could I do my residency back in the USA (this has sort of been asked before) and apply for a consultant position back in the UK. Because, although it is quick to get a med degree in the UK, it takes a WHILE before one can become a neurologist, pathologist, radiologist, etc. (around 7-8 years if i'm not mistaken). It would be quicker if I get a residency in the USA (4 years) and apply for a UK consultant position. Total time-9 years before I practise. Does this make sense? Are there any loopholes, flaws, things I should take into consideration (money isn't a problem). Also, don't UK doctors get lower pay compared to US doctors?

[Scottish Chap]

I am currently a junior in the USA. I've been looking into several fast track bs/md programs here in the states, but the shortest I can get them is 6 years. In the UK, i can get my med degree is 5 years. So, I was thinking about going there, getting my med degree, taking the USMLE's and applying for residency back here in the states. The only thing i'm worried about is that in the UK, the med school will prepare me primarily for practise in the UK health care system. Is this true?

Yes, it is reasonable that a British medical school should prepare graduates to practice within the NHS in the U.K. You would not obtain much support for the USMLE. To cicumvent issues later on, it's best to obtain your medical training in the country you intend to stay in permanently; hopping from country to country will be more trouble than it's worth. Also, the shortest and fastest route is not always the best in the long run, IMHO.

Another thing. If i go to the UK and get my med degree there, could I do my residency back in the USA (this has sort of been asked before) and apply for a consultant position back in the UK.

Upon passing step 1 and step 2 (Plus clinical competency exam) of the USMLE and, after obtaining your ECFMG certificate, you will be eligible to apply for residencies in the U.S. It is uncommon for a British-trained medical student to do all of their postgraduate training in the U.S., then practice in the U.K. but I'm sure it's not unheard of.

Because, although it is quick to get a med degree in the UK, it takes a WHILE before one can become a neurologist, pathologist, radiologist, etc. (around 7-8 years if i'm not mistaken). It would be quicker if I get a residency in the USA (4 years) and apply for a UK consultant position. Total time-9 years before I practise. Does this make sense? Are there any loopholes, flaws, things I should take into consideration (money isn't a problem). Also, don't UK doctors get lower pay compared to US doctors?

It won't be as straight-forward as that. I would really question the root: why are you in such a hurry to obtain medical training in the shortest way possible. The pay is comparable. The U.S. probably offers a better standard of living overall. The U.K. probably offers a better quality of living overall.

Good luck!

[MBS]

If you finish your med school in the UK, and work for one year in the UK afterwards (Do the F1), you will be granted Full registration by the GMC and will be able to practise medicine whenever you like in the UK. But the grade may vary.

If you decide to go to the US (or study at the US), and then spceialise there, and become a consultant (or equivalent) in the US, you may apply for assessment by the Royal Colleges/Joint Committees to obtain the CCST (Certificate of Completion of Specialist Training) Under paragraph 4 of the assessment (I think) which basically means you have had an equivalent training outside the EU to a UK consultant, This would allow you to be put on the GMC's specialist register and work as an NHS Consultant. Even if you graduate from the US, you will be granted Full Registration by the GMC If the CCST was successfully granted to you.

Another advantage of graduating from the UK, You can work in Australia, New Zealand without having to sit their assessment exams (Commonwealth/ex-colony thing), If you are qualified from the US, I dont think you can do that.

Regards
MBS

[AmreekiMultani]

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[Scottish Chap]

Thanks a lot for the advice!

Here's another question I'd like to throw at ya...

Being in an international medical school what should I put emphasis on? What do you notice is lacking in foreign students? Over here they stress the minute details...we spend 2 whole years on anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry! Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe that much time is spent on these topics in US med schools.

They say Snell's Anatomy "isn't detailed enough"... I swear they make you memorize Gray's and KLM by heart.

Are such details important in the US system, or is the general broad concept what they are looking for?

We spend very little time on the clincal aspects...I'm sure the opposite pretains in the US

My dilemma is first I gotta pass here and then I gotta pass there....2 entirely different systems to master. Phew...my heart is sinking just thinking about it haha.

In the end all I want to be is a good doctor, someone show me the way!

Humza Dasti

Studying for step 1 like your life depended on it will help; that will get you past the first screen. Get a hold of the Step 1 first aid book, BRS physiology, pathology, etc., and the Kaplan Q-bank. Practice, practice, practice. With preparation, you'll do well. International medical schools (exluding the Caribbean) do not emphasize some of the minutia on Step 1 like U.S. school and they do not 'teach to the exam'. We literally have nasty multiple choice exams every four weeks here--often on minutia--and they're taken under the conditions of the USMLE (no calculators, no talking etc.) and they're written in the USMLE format. I was actually educated in the British system (undergraduate) which is similar to your medical system and so the different thought processes required really are striking.

Keep in mind that all U.S. graduates have a Bachelors degree and many have graduate degrees. Everyone has studied organic chemistry, chemistry, and biology before medical school, and many incoming students have a working knowledge of biochemistry and physiology so they don't spend as much time on it in medical school. Also, classes are condensed into the first two years of the four-year M.D. (classes last all day at my school) and we have exams every four weeks. Contrast that to the rest of the world where a medical degree is usually 5-6 years from high school, so I think what you're seeing is another system catering to that system and working well.

Will you have elective time? If so, can you do some rotations in the U.S.? This will help you substantially - especially if you can secure a reference from a U.S. physician or two and get your name known.

You'll be fine - whatever you decide; you've come this far. Take one day at a time and focus on your immediate goal. It's not impossible to get back to the U.S., so believe it will happen. Good luck!

[londonortho]

I am an American citizen in an orthopaedic surgery residency at a competitive program. Due to possible family circumstances, there is a chance I will want to do a year of clinical "fellowship" and research in London, UK. This will likely be after my completion of PGY2, 3, or 4. I know there is a large discrepancy in the knowledge and skill base between these levels of training.

First, I am unclear about the approximate equivalent between UK and US medical training. Is SpR 4 similar to PGY4? To clarify, I have finished medical school in the US. I am in my residency. The orthopaedic surgery residency is 5 years total, including 1 year of internship (including various general surgery, ICU, 3 months of ortho, 1 month ortho radiology) and 4 years of ortho only.

Second, how should I go about finding a private based fellowship in London as a equivalent PGY 3 or 4? Have you seen/heard of such arrangements? I have excellent credentials and research experience. I am willing to purchase my own insurance and cover a good bit of the living expenses, however, I would need to be paid at least some small stipend. I do not think I will have the time to pass UK exams and get a non-private position (unless you recommend trying). I am not looking to practice in the UK, only pick up surgical tips (I would definately want to operate) and perhaps complete some research.

Thanks for your thoughts on where to look and how to convert UK medical training into US medical training (roughly).

[Scottish Chap]

I am an American citizen in an orthopaedic surgery residency at a competitive program. Due to possible family circumstances, there is a chance I will want to do a year of clinical "fellowship" and research in London, UK. This will likely be after my completion of PGY2, 3, or 4. I know there is a large discrepancy in the knowledge and skill base between these levels of training.

First, I am unclear about the approximate equivalent between UK and US medical training. Is SpR 4 similar to PGY4? To clarify, I have finished medical school in the US. I am in my residency. The orthopaedic surgery residency is 5 years total, including 1 year of internship (including various general surgery, ICU, 3 months of ortho, 1 month ortho radiology) and 4 years of ortho only.

Second, how should I go about finding a private based fellowship in London as a equivalent PGY 3 or 4? Have you seen/heard of such arrangements? I have excellent credentials and research experience. I am willing to purchase my own insurance and cover a good bit of the living expenses, however, I would need to be paid at least some small stipend. I do not think I will have the time to pass UK exams and get a non-private position (unless you recommend trying). I am not looking to practice in the UK, only pick up surgical tips (I would definately want to operate) and perhaps complete some research.

Thanks for your thoughts on where to look and how to convert UK medical training into US medical training (roughly).

Hi there!
You definitely have a situation that's not 'run-of-the-mill'. I have seen it posted elsewhere that North American M.D.'s can do fellowship training in the U.K. without having to take the PLAB exam (U.K. equivalent of the ECFMG certificate) but I should refer you to that forum where you may obtain a more complete answer: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=142

Basically, an intern in the U.K. is a junior house office (PGY1). After that, there are senior house officer posts that can last a couple of years. Then, at the SpR level, you generally begin to specialize more. Keep in mind that, unlike the U.S., 99% of hospitals in the U.K. are not private and so the regulations for practicing foreign physicians are stringent. As for doing research for a year: it won't be a problem. Start contacting potential investigators now. Good luck!

[blakeish]

I am currently attending medical school in the United States and my school uses Snell's Clinical Anatomy. Last year's class scored 10 points above the national average on the USMLE Step 1, so I assume that the textbook is more than sufficient. I also find almost all of the Board Review Series books to be very helpful.


On a different note, I'd really like the chance to study in London while I'm still young and possibly consider residing there after school, but it sounds to me that the opportunities for me there are impractical at best, if not impossible.