US citizen, UK med school, US residency, UK practice?

[splik]

anyone know the answer to this one?

i'm currently a med student in london and i want to go into clinical academic medicine. as most of the funding for research is granted to american establisment's i would eventually find myself wanting to work in the U.S. would i have to have done the USMLE? an academic is typically involved in undertaking research (often with patients), teaching undergraduate and postgraduate medicine, and has clinical privileges at the hospital to which the department or school is attached.

it would be bloody annoying if in 20 years time i want to take the next step in my career and apply for a post on the other side of the pond only to be told 'sorry you haven't done the boards, you're ineligible' and me effing and blinding because i wouldn't need to know the bloody krebs cycle (what is the point!) or know the borders of hesselbach's triangle or how to insert a cannula or take blood gases.

i could go on a rant right about now... but i won't.

splik

[Scottish Chap]

anyone know the answer to this one?

i'm currently a med student in london and i want to go into clinical academic medicine. as most of the funding for research is granted to american establisment's i would eventually find myself wanting to work in the U.S. would i have to have done the USMLE? an academic is typically involved in undertaking research (often with patients), teaching undergraduate and postgraduate medicine, and has clinical privileges at the hospital to which the department or school is attached.

it would be bloody annoying if in 20 years time i want to take the next step in my career and apply for a post on the other side of the pond only to be told 'sorry you haven't done the boards, you're ineligible' and me effing and blinding because i wouldn't need to know the bloody krebs cycle (what is the point!) or know the borders of hesselbach's triangle or how to insert a cannula or take blood gases.

i could go on a rant right about now... but i won't.

splik

If you want to work as a clinician in the U.S. then, yes, you would have to take Steps 1 and 2 of the USMLE as well as gaining the ECFMG certificate to make that happen. If you want to work in academics and you are doing bench research (many “foreign M.D.’s” in the U.S. are doing this) then you would not need the USMLEs. If you are doing clinical research that requires an active medical credential then you would need to take the USMLEs. I have a friend who graduated from Manchester’s medical school and, after doing a couple of SHO posts, he came to the U.S. on a Fulbright Scholarship to conduct the two years of his M.D. thesis research. He took Steps 1 and 2 of the USMLE while he was here in case he wants to work in the U.S. later on. Right now, he’s back in the U.K. working as an SPR in cardiothoracic surgery. Good for him, and good for his career.

[C-rock]

I am thinking of applying to St. Christopher's College of Medicine. Thing is I am an American but i would really love to move, study, and practice in the UK.

Can anyone offer me advice on what my changes of getting accepted into MED schools in the UK are? Also any information you know/have on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

[Scottish Chap]

I am thinking of applying to St. Christopher's College of Medicine. Thing is I am an American but i would really love to move, study, and practice in the UK.

Can anyone offer me advice on what my changes of getting accepted into MED schools in the UK are? Also any information you know/have on this subject would be greatly appreciated.

It would be impossible for anyone to determine your chances of admission to medical school - in the U.K. or the U.S. - even if you posted your stats. The MCAT is not generally needed (though some schools like Edinburgh will consider it if you score at least: 9, 9, 10). A good GPA will help. You will, however, find it significantly easier to get into St. Christopher's College of Medicine (which is NOT a British medical school, but a satellite campus for a medical school in Senegal, Africa). The general Medical Council in the U.K. has temporarily suspended St. Chris as a degree-awarding entity for physicains intending to practice in the U.K. (pending further investigation): http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4410020.stm

If you apply to mainstream British medical schools and they don't grant you admission have you considered Caribbean medical schools? St. Georges in Grenada is much more accessible for North Americans and they have a good track record for setting up third-year clinical rotation in both the U.K. and the U.S. In fact, scome graduates now pratice in the U.K. Good luck!

[southernazn918]

I am currently a junior in the USA. I've been looking into several fast track bs/md programs here in the states, but the shortest I can get them is 6 years. In the UK, i can get my med degree is 5 years. So, I was thinking about going there, getting my med degree, taking the USMLE's and applying for residency back here in the states. The only thing i'm worried about is that in the UK, the med school will prepare me primarily for practise in the UK health care system. Is this true?

Another thing. If i go to the UK and get my med degree there, could I do my residency back in the USA (this has sort of been asked before) and apply for a consultant position back in the UK. Because, although it is quick to get a med degree in the UK, it takes a WHILE before one can become a neurologist, pathologist, radiologist, etc. (around 7-8 years if i'm not mistaken). It would be quicker if I get a residency in the USA (4 years) and apply for a UK consultant position. Total time-9 years before I practise. Does this make sense? Are there any loopholes, flaws, things I should take into consideration (money isn't a problem). Also, don't UK doctors get lower pay compared to US doctors?

[Scottish Chap]

I am currently a junior in the USA. I've been looking into several fast track bs/md programs here in the states, but the shortest I can get them is 6 years. In the UK, i can get my med degree is 5 years. So, I was thinking about going there, getting my med degree, taking the USMLE's and applying for residency back here in the states. The only thing i'm worried about is that in the UK, the med school will prepare me primarily for practise in the UK health care system. Is this true?

Yes, it is reasonable that a British medical school should prepare graduates to practice within the NHS in the U.K. You would not obtain much support for the USMLE. To cicumvent issues later on, it's best to obtain your medical training in the country you intend to stay in permanently; hopping from country to country will be more trouble than it's worth. Also, the shortest and fastest route is not always the best in the long run, IMHO.

Another thing. If i go to the UK and get my med degree there, could I do my residency back in the USA (this has sort of been asked before) and apply for a consultant position back in the UK.

Upon passing step 1 and step 2 (Plus clinical competency exam) of the USMLE and, after obtaining your ECFMG certificate, you will be eligible to apply for residencies in the U.S. It is uncommon for a British-trained medical student to do all of their postgraduate training in the U.S., then practice in the U.K. but I'm sure it's not unheard of.

Because, although it is quick to get a med degree in the UK, it takes a WHILE before one can become a neurologist, pathologist, radiologist, etc. (around 7-8 years if i'm not mistaken). It would be quicker if I get a residency in the USA (4 years) and apply for a UK consultant position. Total time-9 years before I practise. Does this make sense? Are there any loopholes, flaws, things I should take into consideration (money isn't a problem). Also, don't UK doctors get lower pay compared to US doctors?

It won't be as straight-forward as that. I would really question the root: why are you in such a hurry to obtain medical training in the shortest way possible. The pay is comparable. The U.S. probably offers a better standard of living overall. The U.K. probably offers a better quality of living overall.

Good luck!

[MBS]

If you finish your med school in the UK, and work for one year in the UK afterwards (Do the F1), you will be granted Full registration by the GMC and will be able to practise medicine whenever you like in the UK. But the grade may vary.

If you decide to go to the US (or study at the US), and then spceialise there, and become a consultant (or equivalent) in the US, you may apply for assessment by the Royal Colleges/Joint Committees to obtain the CCST (Certificate of Completion of Specialist Training) Under paragraph 4 of the assessment (I think) which basically means you have had an equivalent training outside the EU to a UK consultant, This would allow you to be put on the GMC's specialist register and work as an NHS Consultant. Even if you graduate from the US, you will be granted Full Registration by the GMC If the CCST was successfully granted to you.

Another advantage of graduating from the UK, You can work in Australia, New Zealand without having to sit their assessment exams (Commonwealth/ex-colony thing), If you are qualified from the US, I dont think you can do that.

Regards
MBS

[AmreekiMultani]

Hi, I'm in a similar yet quite different situation.

I was an undergraduate student at the University of Maryland, College Park until last semester. I was an Accounting and Information Systems major and in my 3rd semester at the university. Due to some strange circumstances I had to leave the University and move back to my home country, Pakistan. As circumstances seemed that I would be living in Pakistan for quite some time I totally withdrew from the university and received admissions at Nishtar Medical College based upon my partial college grades, high school grades, and their medical school entry test which bears resemblance to the MCAT. The college offers a M.B.B.S. (Bachelors of Medicine, Bachelors of Surgery) degree awarded by University of Health Sciences, Lahore. I am currently wrapping up the 1st year of medical school here out of a 5 year course. I am a born U.S. Citizen and a resident of Maryland and I hope to come back to the United States within the next 3 years. My main question to you is if it is possible to transfer into medical school coming from a foreign institution based upon my USMLE Step - 1 scores and my academic standing in the college I am currently attending or am I stuck here now and have to complete the whole 5 year course and then fight for a residency slot as a foreign student a few years from now? I understand that transferring if possible is at least 2 years away from now however, I want to make sure I do everything possible to get it right if I do have the chance to do so. I am also considering trying to return back to America this year and rejoining University of Maryland if circumstances will allow me to do so. So I have many options on the table:

1. Finish medical school in Pakistan and try to get a residency slot in America as a foreign student
2. Transfer into the 2nd or 3rd year course of a American Medical College
3. Quit medical school here despite completing 1 year of coursework and rejoin an undergraduate institution in America and gain admission to medical school afterwards.

As you can see I'm pretty confused at what I should do. What I want is to finish a few years here and then transfer back into medical school in America. I hope you can inform me on the procedures so that I may make an educated decision with regards to my future.

Thank you for your time and patience,

Humza A. Dasti
1st Year M.B.B.S. Student
Nishtar Medical College
Multan, Pakistan

[Scottish Chap]

Hi, I'm in a similar yet quite different situation.

I was an undergraduate student at the University of Maryland, College Park until last semester. I was an Accounting and Information Systems major and in my 3rd semester at the university. Due to some strange circumstances I had to leave the University and move back to my home country, Pakistan. As circumstances seemed that I would be living in Pakistan for quite some time I totally withdrew from the university and received admissions at Nishtar Medical College based upon my partial college grades, high school grades, and their medical school entry test which bears resemblance to the MCAT. The college offers a M.B.B.S. (Bachelors of Medicine, Bachelors of Surgery) degree awarded by University of Health Sciences, Lahore. I am currently wrapping up the 1st year of medical school here out of a 5 year course. I am a born U.S. Citizen and a resident of Maryland and I hope to come back to the United States within the next 3 years. My main question to you is if it is possible to transfer into medical school coming from a foreign institution based upon my USMLE Step - 1 scores and my academic standing in the college I am currently attending or am I stuck here now and have to complete the whole 5 year course and then fight for a residency slot as a foreign student a few years from now? I understand that transferring if possible is at least 2 years away from now however, I want to make sure I do everything possible to get it right if I do have the chance to do so. I am also considering trying to return back to America this year and rejoining University of Maryland if circumstances will allow me to do so. So I have many options on the table:

1. Finish medical school in Pakistan and try to get a residency slot in America as a foreign student
2. Transfer into the 2nd or 3rd year course of a American Medical College
3. Quit medical school here despite completing 1 year of coursework and rejoin an undergraduate institution in America and gain admission to medical school afterwards.

As you can see I'm pretty confused at what I should do. What I want is to finish a few years here and then transfer back into medical school in America. I hope you can inform me on the procedures so that I may make an educated decision with regards to my future.

Thank you for your time and patience,

Humza A. Dasti
1st Year M.B.B.S. Student
Nishtar Medical College
Multan, Pakistan

Hi there!

Sorry to hear about your plight, but congratulations on making the most of a difficult circumstance.

If you are enrolled in a foreign medical school, I submit to you that it's almost impossible to transfer into a U.S. allopathic (M.D.) medical school. Very occassionally, I have heard of students at St. Geroge's or Ross University in the Caribbean transferring into American medical schools after year 2, but most of them scores in the 99th percentile on step 1 of the USMLE and they earn straight A's in years 1 and 2 of medical school. Even with that, the few schools that accept them in the U.S. make them repeat year 2. Caribbean medical schools follow the U.S. curricululm very closely, as you know, and this is probably why those are the only "international" schools that have had successful transfers.

Now, that's not to say it's impossible - just highly unlikely. Nothing beats contacting the universities that you are interestesd in directly. I know that Johns Hopkins and the University of Maryland School of Medicine definitely do not accept international transfers (I used to live in Maryland and I worked at Hopkins), but I do recall Indiana University saying that they consider transfers from international medical schools only if the applicant is a bonafide resident of the state of Indiana. Again, I'm not sure if by "international", they mean only Caribbean.

The bottom line is that you are in medical school now and you have completed a year. You are capable of completing the rest. If you come back to the U.S., finishing college and doing well on the MCAT are sometimes not enough to secure admission; the admissions process here is strikingly arbitrary at some schools and many excellent candidates (some of my friends) have been consistently denied admission. I feel it would be best for you to finish medical school in Lahore and study for the USMLE like your life depended on it. I have a friend with the MBBS from your school and he did just fine in U.S. residency placements. Also keep in mind that your U.S citizenship will give you a huge advantage over a local graduate from Lahore.

Good luck!

[AmreekiMultani]

Thanks a lot for the advice!

Here's another question I'd like to throw at ya...

Being in an international medical school what should I put emphasis on? What do you notice is lacking in foreign students? Over here they stress the minute details...we spend 2 whole years on anatomy, physiology, and biochemistry! Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe that much time is spent on these topics in US med schools.

They say Snell's Anatomy "isn't detailed enough"... I swear they make you memorize Gray's and KLM by heart.

Are such details important in the US system, or is the general broad concept what they are looking for?

We spend very little time on the clincal aspects...I'm sure the opposite pretains in the US

My dilemma is first I gotta pass here and then I gotta pass there....2 entirely different systems to master. Phew...my heart is sinking just thinking about it haha.

In the end all I want to be is a good doctor, someone show me the way!

Humza Dasti