UKCAT the negative aspect!

[stripedhorse]

I don't understand the aggressive response to the op's post from one of the posters. It is perfectly reasonable for him to ask whether this is the best way to discriminate between students. As future doctors we should be having a debate about this.

The fact is we do not know for sure whether the test selects the most able students or not. Medical schools do not know this for sure which is why they will do all sorts of studies comparing med school exam results with ukcat scores.

We certainly do not know enough about this test to state that 2 candidates with the same A levels and GCSE grades can be ranked as able versus less able on the basis of their ukcat score.

Having said all that you are right to say that med schools do have to discriminate between candidates and this is probably better than a Barts-style lottery. But it is perfectly legitimate to question whether this is the best way to go about doing it which is what the op was doing. And it is a nice thing to do to sympathise with good students who mess up the UKCAT. This demonstrates empathy which is an important characteristic of a good doctor.

I also think it is clear from the op's post that he wasn't saying that the test had generated an "accurate description" of him but a flattering one which would possibly fairly or unfairly benefit his application. He was simply trying to say that he has no personal stake in saying that he has no faith in the exam to accurately discriminate between students.

[Pammy]

Wow, this forum is getting nasty! There are already a couple of other threads where a perfectly innocent statement elicited a host of surprisingly aggressive replies...Calm down people, everyone is entitled to their own opinion! It wasn't even an outragous comment of sorts...When you're all doctors, you'll have to deal with large numbers of patients, some of whom will be simply unreasonable, others downright crazy, and the occasional one even confrontational...And many will have a different view on things to you for sure, or not seem to be taking in what you're saying, or, or, or...
And as regards the UKCAT, I believe that some of the arguments are valid. While of course it does discriminate between candidates in some way, the question is whether this way will actually determine who makes the best doctors, which is what the aim should be. Of course the UKCAT tests general ability of some sort, it being very similar in style to a host of other general intelligence tests. But does it prove who is best at medicine? If you look at other countries, you'll see what I mean. In Germany for example, there is a different kind of medicine admissions test. It last 6 hours, and I believe is much more specifically targeted at medicine-relevant skills. E.g. there are some - crazily difficult - sections on spatial awareness and concentration skills, but also others on scientific reasoning and memory.
To really assess what the UKCAT does, you will need a lot of research in the years to come, e.g. correlation between degree outcome and UKCAT score, correlation between BMAT and UKCAT score, UKCAT score dependence on educational background (e.g. type of school attended), UKCAT score intrinsic variation at repeat sittings, etc.
In the first instance I think it will probably do the trick, since displaying general intelligence is extremely important in a doctor especially if you want to educate doctors with a strong science background. However this is not to say that some people who would make very good doctors underperform in this tests, nor that there are not better ways to discriminate between people who want to be doctors not e.g. physicists.
Most importantly, why can't we argue about this in a civilised, open-minded way...arrogance is never very helpful in any argument. I am tempted to start up some random threads just to smile at the general bashing I will receive :-)
Pammy

[Bek]

Thanks for the replies pammy and stripedhorse.

[Arch_Angel]

Any test that you'll ever take will only really show how well you can do on that particular test, not on ability in general. The cold hard fact of the matter is that medical schools have decided to use it. Anyone is fully entitled to their opinions about the wisdom behind this, but it looks, at least for the next few years, as if it's here to stay.

I understand when people complain about the irrelevance of it, and I completely agree that the test is irrelevant and will have no bearing whatsoever on how good a doctor you will make. However, the whole point is to attempt to assess your ability to pass as many things (with no regard to relevance) as the admissions office throws at you, thereby showing that you are slightly more able (even at something that means nothing) than someone who scored less than you.

The test is unfair. Some people are better than others at this sort of thing and again, i'm sure it'll have no bearing on that "quality" of doctor you are. But again, it's simply another hurdle to attempt to disqualify more people. A levels are unfair, some people are better at answering the questions and remembering the facts than others.

Why would an admissions office be concerned about the fairness of a test when all it's other admissions criteria are also bias towards either the clever or the privileged?

As to the comment above, i'm not being nasty, simply expressing myself fully. The test is unfair, so is everything else.

Nik

[floralprints83]

Hey Bec, just wanted to say similar to the others - i think the response you got was quite uncalled for - you were only making a valid point that I somewhat agree with - there are many ways to measure intelligence and the UKCAT test isnt the only way. Universitys ive spoken to do seem to agree with this - since its only the second year running.

I think this forum shuld try and be a little more understanding and appreciative of peoples comments - responses like the ones you recieved would put people off posting threads and thats a shame.

[Bek]

Ye all i wanted to do is bring up a civilised conversation about peoples view on the effectiveness of the UKCAT and also bring hope in those who have not done as well. Thanks for the replies guys.

BTW i am male not a female.