Do you have to be top of the class to be a surgeon??

[>Freak<]

Just wondering, doesn't coming top of the year show something, as well? It takes a great deal of motivation and commitment to do well in exams and to come top, doesn't it? I think belittling the difference in academic(and possibly clinical performance?)would be slightly unfair as it means those who work hard are not going to get anything in return? In that case shouldn't everyone just make sure they pass(and constantly score 50%)since scoring 90% puts them in just the same situation and no advantage whatsoever.

Oh, not to mention that'd result in all the patients being treated with docs and surgeons who only know 50% of their stuff?

[Spencer Wells]

Oh, not to mention that'd result in all the patients being treated with docs and surgeons who only know 50% of their stuff?

That oversimplifies things greatly. The stuff that you learn in med school is only the very basics necessary to operate as a FY1. FY1s rarely make treatment decisions - they have years to learn all the practice of medicine that they'll need before being given any real responsibility. The curriculum of medical schools is set by the GMC and so if a med student passes, even if they only barely scrape a pass, they should be good enough to do the job that medical school teaches them to do.

[>Freak<]

That oversimplifies things greatly. The stuff that you learn in med school is only the very basics necessary to operate as a FY1. FY1s rarely make treatment decisions - they have years to learn all the practice of medicine that they'll need before being given any real responsibility. The curriculum of medical schools is set by the GMC and so if a med student passes, even if they only barely scrape a pass, they should be good enough to do the job that medical school teaches them to do.

Fair enough, I am aware that most of the stuff that we learn in pre-clinical years are not going to be directly applicable to the clinical practice in the future.

Would you mind to offer some of your views on the other part of my question? Does that mean I can just, from now on, start going out every night/go travelling during term time?(since it may not be particularly tough to scrape a pass..)And I do know a handful of people who do pass their exams with minimal effort.(or much less compared to me)

I'm asking because I've been working pretty hard since coming to med school(though I still have time to rest and join societies and stuff) so what you guys said just made me wonder if all those hardwork's necessary/will bear fruit one day?

[Spencer Wells]

Well currently it's worth a few points on your FPA form - a few points that can easily be made up for in the white space questions, but things may change by the time you're applying, so be all means work if you want to. Remember though that even the guy who graduates at the bottom of his class is still a doctor, and will still have access tot he same training opportunities as the guy at the top.

[>Freak<]

Well currently it's worth a few points on your FPA form - a few points that can easily be made up for in the white space questions, but things may change by the time you're applying, so be all means work if you want to. Remember though that even the guy who graduates at the bottom of his class is still a doctor, and will still have access tot he same training opportunities as the guy at the top.

What a sad phenomenon, I have to say I'm rather surprised at the under-appreciation of students' performances in med schools.

[Spencer Wells]

What a sad phenomenon, I have to say I'm rather surprised at the under-appreciation of students' performances in med schools.

It's rubbish, but it's the system. We complain every year, but nothing changes.

[yazoo]

Just wondering, doesn't coming top of the year show something, as well? It takes a great deal of motivation and commitment to do well in exams and to come top, doesn't it?

In order to do well (in any field), what you need is sustainability of a high level of performance. And that comes from being satisfied in your life. So balance is important. But then balance is different for everyone. Some need to be top but still are not happy. Some don't care if they are enjoying themselves. But those who are enjoying themselves are doing something sustainable.

It's figuring out where you want to be that is important. Medicine is full of people who are big fish from a little pond. Only a minority of the class will be "top". And they will have made sacrifices.

It's a choice.

[Arch_Angel]

I read (somewhere, do I don't know if it is reliable) that the trend is swinging back to favour academics rather than those who can talk nonsense about feelings on a form....

[Gizmo says -]

i ope you dont mean that its swingin back to the ones who know exactly scientifcally what to say but cant express it.

And that comes from being satisfied in your life. So balance is important. But then balance is different for everyone. . But those who are enjoying themselves are doing something sustainable.

It's figuring out where you want to be that is important. Medicine is full of people who are big fish from a little pond. Only a minority of the class will be "top". And they will have made sacrifices.

It's a choice.

WWF ultimate post of the month.

[yazoo]

(post-MMC medical SHOs can't take a shit without supervision from the registrar) and you need to do all the procedures (central lines, LPs, chest drains) as the SHO's are just not up to it any more.

It must be distressing to feel that only subordinate SHOs are following in your footsteps. I feel sorry for you.