Graduate GEP questions - anyone help?

[pentapeptides]

Hi,

I'm new to all this so "hello" to you all. I am a 32 yr-old mum of two thinking about applying for medical school for Oct 2008. A couple of things I wanted some insider info on. I wanted to know if anyone can give me a rough idea of how much financial support I would get on a 4 yr GEP course. I am desperate to achieve a life-long ambition to study medicine but fear that financially, I just will not be able to survive in London (we cannot move due to partner's job and eldest daughter starting school). I know of the various different categories of grant that are available, but can anyone with personal exp. on a GEP course let me know roughly what sort of figures I would be entitled to. I am currently finishing my doctoral training in clinical psychology which i hope will be great experience to get me a place at med school but know I'm up against fierce competition. Would my 8 years of experience in the NHS count as valid experience? Although working as a psychologist, obviously have been working in numerous medical settings (paediatrics, CMHT, GP surgeries etc) with lots of liaising with doctors. Do you think it is enough experience or do i need more???

Thanks in advance for any replies

PP

[KKerr]

Hello,

I am not specifically on a GEP course, although I applied for them and was offered a place at Nottingham - so I looked into the finances quite a bit when I was making my decisions -

In terms of costs - there is normally a 3K/year tuition charge, which IF you live in England, and have been there for 3 or more years (other than for the sole purpose of full-time study), you should be eligible for help from your LEA and NHS bursaries in years 2, 3 and 4. This means you will need to pay the tuition for year 1 (3K). I'm not entirely certain how much assistance you get after this point, other than your tuition paid (someone else currently on a GEP will be able to help you with that).

With regards to the experience, although you have alot of NHS experience, I can pretty much garuntee you that schools will want to see some sort of volunteer or health care assistant type work that is OUTSIDE your normal job/course of study. I have my PhD and have done 7 years of clinical research in stroke and mental health, and the first year I applied I got turned down, mainly because "I had not explored medicine as a career outside my speciality research area". You will need to show that you have explored medicine outside the realm of NHS clinical psychology (although you can draw alot on that experience when discussing various issues such as confidentiality, etc). Try and get some experience, whether it is volunteer or paid, that is as far from psychology as you can get - the more "hands on" the better (health care assistant work is ideal, as it can also serve as a flexible part-time job when you are in school - although these positions are hard to come by - keep trying!).

I expect you will also need to be able to articulate, very clearly and very convincingly - why you want to switch from Clinical Psych to medicine. I had this issue as well. For some reason it is easier for admissions boards to understand why someone in a field completely unrelated to health care wants to become a doctor than those of us already close to the field. You also need to avoid the appearance of just jumping from one full-time course to another. Please dont take this as a criticism - just playing devils advocate, and raising the kinds of questions that I got asked.... but you may get things like, "why should the NHS fund you to do another 4 years of medical training (plus post-grad training) when it has just funded you to do Clinical Psychology?", "Why have you changed your mind about Clinical Psychology? Are you not just as likely to change your mind about medicine at the end of that degree?" Questions like these are why you will need to have VERY strong reasons for doing this AND the experience in various medical situations to back yourself up in convincing them that you both understand what medicine is and be able to convince them that you are making this decision on a very informed basis.

All that said - I wish you the best of luck!! As a fellow psychology graduate , it can be done!!

[pookymum]

Hi,
I'm starting the GPEP at Kings in 2008 (deferred a year) and the costs are only really becoming apparent! The fees for the GPEP are, as KKerr suggests, only 3k for the first year (bit of a bargain) but childcare is the killer. When I start I will have a 3 year old and a 5 year old, and while I budgeted for nursery for my younger daughter, had completely underestimated the costs of breakfast clubs and afterschool/holiday clubs for my older daughter! We don't really qualify for any other assistance, so looking a bit tricky. There are other threads you can look at on childcare support and whether you qualify ( see http://www.studentsupportdirect.co.uk - for the guide filling the CCG1 form). Other parents on this forum suggest that a maximum of 85% of the childcare costs of approx £900/month will be paid for, if you qualify.

As for your experience I think it's very valid, but of course it really depends on how to sell it (although it really impressed me!). That said it's always a good idea to find additional experience which may give you a different outlook. I didn't have a huge amount of health experience to be fair but at interview found myself talking about the broader work expereince I had, figuring that they would have a lot of people talking about shadowing/care assistant roles. Bear in mind I've been a stay at home mum for the last four years, which really didn't allow for a huge amount of free time, so had to pick things that could be done in the evenings!
I only applied to kings (it was the only one I could easily commute to) intending to apply to more when I didn't get in (but didn't need to :-) ). Their interview process did not allow the type of questioning that KKerr mentions above (approx 8 questions aksed to all interviewees, no follow up questions), but while those specific questions weren't asked, your replies have to include all the same content and conviction as if they did, and the ps really has to shine.
Good luck - feel free to pm me if you want more info
Seeta

[pookymum]

Hi,
I'm starting the GPEP at Kings in 2008 (deferred a year) and the costs are only really becoming apparent! The fees for the GPEP are, as KKerr suggests, only 3k for the first year (bit of a bargain) but childcare is the killer. When I start I will have a 3 year old and a 5 year old, and while I budgeted for nursery for my younger daughter, had completely underestimated the costs of breakfast clubs and afterschool/holiday clubs for my older daughter! We don't really qualify for any other assistance, so looking a bit tricky. There are other threads you can look at on childcare support and whether you qualify ( see http://www.studentsupportdirect.co.uk - for the guide filling the CCG1 form). Other parents on this forum suggest that a maximum of 85% of the childcare costs of approx £900/month will be paid for, if you qualify.

As for your experience I think it's very valid, but of course it really depends on how to sell it (although it really impressed me!). That said it's always a good idea to find additional experience which may give you a different outlook. I didn't have a huge amount of health experience to be fair but at interview found myself talking about the broader work expereince I had, figuring that they would have a lot of people talking about shadowing/care assistant roles. Bear in mind I've been a stay at home mum for the last four years, which really didn't allow for a huge amount of free time, so had to pick things that could be done in the evenings!
I only applied to kings (it was the only one I could easily commute to) intending to apply to more when I didn't get in (but didn't need to :-) ). Their interview process did not allow the type of questioning that KKerr mentions above (approx 8 questions aksed to all interviewees, no follow up questions), but while those specific questions weren't asked, your replies have to include all the same content and conviction as if they did, and the ps really has to shine.
Good luck - feel free to pm me if you want more info
Seeta

[KKerr]

Hi Seeta

Was it the GEP program at Kings you applied for? I applied for the 5 year program, and got quite a few questions on my PhD, what kind of research I had done, why I was changing, etc etc. They were very, very pleasant, but intent on really seeing how I justified my decision to take up medicine at this stage.

For some reason, I think they sometimes take a different approach when people are already coming from within a health related field - possibly because the whole justification of "I want to help people" doesnt really work as they can argue that you already are "helping" people through your research etc - so you have to be very clear about what medicine, specifically, offers you that you cannot get through research, nursing, clinical psych. or whatever other health relate background you are coming from.

Agree that the clinical Psych. experience will be fantastic, once you get started, just wanted to make you aware of some of the possible hurdles that will be thrown your way. In this respect - sometimes the GEP programs are easier (i.e. Notts, St. georges) as they have a standardized questioning format, so they cant wander into asking you loads of questions about why you are leaving this career or another, in fact, they wont even have that information unless you tell them during the interview. The 5 year interviews I had (Kings and Edinburgh) all spent alot of time asking me about my current career and my reasons for changing. But it can be done - and shouldnt deter you at all!! I got offers after both of my 5 year interviews, so I apparantly, managed to convey my desire to do medicine and convince them that the change of career was worth-while and well considered.

Good Luck!

[pookymum]

Hi,
yes it was the GEP program that i was interviewed for and imagine the 5 year interview process may well have been different, as you are given more time (only20 minutes max for the GEP).

i did have a health sciences related background (but in the dim and distant past) and while not directly asked for it, did have to explain my varied career choices (with my chequered history, not an easy tale to tell). i definitely agree with KKerr that having a health related background may well not necessarily count in your favour, as you do have to have very convincing reasons why you switched field, and what you can add to the course & field of medicine. I really got the impression that they are looking for a fresh outlook outside of the NHS for the GEP and for that reason quite a few of the successful candidates were new to science. Some had great work experience, some didn't, what was common to all (except me) was having a very strong academic background (i am going to be so very out of my depth).

pentapeptides, I would probably recommend applying for the 4 year course at Kings rather than the five year as you are automatically considered for the 5 year, indeed a number of people interviewed on the day i was, were offered this instead. btw i would love to have another mum on the same course as me too - so please apply!

[pentapeptides]

Hi KKerr & Seeta,

Thank you both so much for your replies. They were both really helpful and have made me think alot about how I am going to structure my application and prepare for any potential interviews I may get offered. I hadn't thought about alot of the issues you both raise. KKerr, I agree that I may have a struggle 'convincing' the admissions board of reasons why I am changing direction from clin. psych after finally achieving my doctorate (which has taken the best part of a decade with all the clinical and research experience necessary!!). It is encouraging to hear that you got two offers with your research background. I will be able to defend myself in interview if they question my commitment to medicine; I certainly would not be applying at this stage in my life and sacrificing my career in psychology unless I was absolutely, 100% committed to the profession. Aside from my interest in studying medicine, my reasons for leaving clin. psych. are more to do with a feeling of wanting to do more for my patients; you are somewhat limited in a therapeutic role and often have to be content with only slight improvements in mental state. I will need to think about a good defence on the funding issue - the NHS has funded my clin.psych doctorate so I will need to be clear in my reasons for justifying why they should invest in my training again. I guess I will have to convince them what a fantastic doctor I will be at the end of it what with all that training and how I will be worth the money! It is really helpful that you raised that one as I hadn't thought about how my application might be questioned from an economical point of view.

Seeta, congrats on getting on the Kings GPEP course. I know how competitive it is for available places so you must have really shined to get offered a place first time. As a fellow mum with two kids, I was interested to read what you were saying about experience. What kind of work did you get in the evenings? And how much? What were your overall feelings about the interview at Kings? Was it as painful as you expected?? I have been considering applying just to Kings as well so it is encouraging that you got your first choice first time round.

I feel really encouraged and positive about going ahead with my application since joining the forum - thanks!

PP

[midnite-oil]

Hi,

I'm new to all this so "hello" to you all. I am a 32 yr-old mum of two thinking about applying for medical school for Oct 2008. A couple of things I wanted some insider info on. I wanted to know if anyone can give me a rough idea of how much financial support I would get on a 4 yr GEP course.

PP

Hi PP

Unfortunately most of the support is means-tested They take family income (salary, savings interest) minus certain allowable expenses (tax, NI, mortgage, council tax, llife assurance etc) minus an amount dependant on the size of your family .......anything you are left with is deducted from the maximum amount of support. Most parents I know seem not to get anything much, except a reduced loan in the 1st year, unless they are on their own or have a non-working / low-income partner.

Provided you satisfy residence, you would get fees paid for you in years 2-4, so only £3000ish to find for the first year, which is a big bonus. You would get 25% reduction in council tax if there is only one adult + 1 student in the house, or free council tax if the only adult is a student. And discounted travel in London (though not if you're coming into London and using a YP Railcard, grrr).

The NHS bursary from years 2-4 is also means-tested, but until they calculate mine (not holding breath for the start of the year as they have been a bit crap so far) I can't comment on the finer details. I think their assessment process is slightly different from the LEA.

PM me if you want to discuss more detailed info on my personal experience of the maze of GEP finances for parents than I'm prepared to give on a chat forum!

[itanola]

i am a igerian medical doctor and just got yo the uk and looking for work in gp surgeries for note summarisation around london, particularly south east while i am sorting out my plab.
i will appreciate any useful link.
thanks