Pre Clinical/Clinical Years

[merriweather]

I'm thinking of applying to Nottingham for 2010 entry and was wanting to hear from current students for some advice!
I know there is debate amongst med students about the best structure for courses and I think Notts sounds amazing and I love the teaching styles. Just wondering the opinions of the medics on how the pre clinical and clinical teaching is very seperated, do you think the pre clinical years give you good basic knowledge or would you have preferred earlier clinical and patient contact? I'm really struggling with choices at the minute so any information at all would be really appreciated!
Thanks, Chloe

[Summer Daisy]

I'm not best placed to give advice here, as I've only done 1 year, but I can talk about my experiences so far!

I've really enjoyed my first year! We had a little clinical contact in the form of GP visits and hospitals visits, which were just enough to remind you why you're there! To be honest, you don't know enough in first year to do much serious clinical stuff. I would have felt thrown in at the deep end.

We learn a fair amount for first year OSCEs in the way of practical skills too (always fun! )

[Divin_doc]

Hey Chloe,

Ive just started my 4th year at Notts so hope I can be of some help! I know it might sound like Im biased but I would say that Notts has one of the best (if not the best) course structure. The teaching styles vary between the year groups, I shall try and explain:

1st and 2nd year: The teaching methods are pretty varied and quite integrated so although these first 2 years ARE mainly lectures, you also have group teaching sessions where you discuss topics like euthanasia, abortion etc; clinical teaching sessions where you are shown how take someones blood pressure, perform cardio and respiratory exams on patients...that kind of thing. These sessions are great fun, really hands on and you generally have a good laugh with your friends! You also have about 3 hospital and 3 GP visits per year (I think!) where you get to sit in on patient consultations, and even interview patients yourself which is very rewarding because most of the GP's get you involved and even ask your opinion! As for the hospital visits, these are good fun, you get to chat to patients on the wards and usually they bring in a group of 'volunteer patients' who have ongoing medical conditions and who you can practice your clinical skills on. Summerdaisy is right, you wouldnt actually benefit from a lot more patient contact this early on as you just wont know enough at this stage!
Finally something which Nottingham offers (which most medical schools now DONT) is dissection....may sound a little grim but this is a completely amazing learning opportunity, one that most of my medic friends at different uni's really wish they had. Dissection classes basically involve a 3 hour session a week where you have your cadaver to dissect (you work in groups of about 5/6 at a time, keeping the same cadaver for all the sessions) and also time to work with the prosections (pre-dissected sections, which are done well to basically highlight key areas) and computer programmes. Each week you have a different area of the body to focus on and that is what you dissect!

Years 1 and 2 are pretty identical in structure as described above, however 1st years tend to start at 9am and 2nd years start at 11am! A definite incentive to make it to 2nd year!! You will really appreciate those lie ins!!

3rd year: This is when the teaching changes massively! At Nottingham they run an integrated extra degree called the BMedSci (other med schools do run a slightly different 'extra degree' but require their students to do a whole extra year....soooo at Notts you would save yourself from having to do a whole extra year at uni! Be warned though, the Notts BMedSci is not worth as many 'points' once you qualify, but this is currently being argued by the top medical people so could change....I would therefore say, dont let this change your mind about the course because its very minor and will probably be worth more once you get to that stage. PLUS it doesnt matter what you get for your BMedSci degree, you can earn far far more points through publications and being invited to conferences which result from a good BMedSci project - Trust me, Im still working on mine because its an awesome project but will hopefully end up with 3 conference presentations and 3 publications just from my little BMedSci...does wonders for your CV!). So what is this project?? Welllll you get from September to January to work on a project that you choose (from a selection) my project was on Massive blood transfusion in trauma surgery so you can get some pretty cool projects! If lab-based work is more your thing then you can do that kind of project....you really get a lot of choice, from patient centred, to audit based and lab based.

After the project is done, written and handed in, you move onto what everyone has been waiting for.....Clinical placement! This is the main shift in course structure, from this point on your teaching is almost entirely clinically based. In 3rd year (until June) you do 7 weeks of general medicine and 7 weeks of general surgery.......

4th Year: Next you do clinical 'specialist' modules so: Obstetrics and gynaecology (where you actually deliver babies!!), paediatrics, health care of the elderly, psychiatry, dermatology, ophthalmology, otorhinolaryngology, and a study module of your choice (basically whatever you are interested, be it surgery, cardiology, teaching, foreign languages, dissection etc).

5th Year: The final year eek (hope you're not bored....I did intent to be brief but heyho) this is effectively half the year doing general medicine and half general surgery, with a lot of panicking about final exams and then the complete joy of electives! On elective you can go anywhere in the world and learn about 'medicine' (or just have an amazing 8 week holiday before you start a life of actually being expected to know something rather than being able to look blank and point to the 'medical student' part of your name badge!).

Ok so hope that has helped! Really wish you the best of luck, I know that if you choose Nottingham you wont be dissappointed!

Good luck and any more questions then fire away!

Bex
x

[merriweather]

Thank you both soo much for the replies, you both seem to love Notts which is so encouraging for me. I'm really struggling with choices at the minute but this really helps. I def think I'll apply to Notts although I have heard its very hard to get into but I guess if I don't try ill never know! Thanks again x

[Divin_doc]

Not a problem

[Summer Daisy]

Finally something which Nottingham offers (which most medical schools now DONT) is dissection....may sound a little grim but this is a completely amazing learning opportunity, one that most of my medic friends at different uni's really wish they had. Dissection classes basically involve a 3 hour session a week where you have your cadaver to dissect (you work in groups of about 5/6 at a time, keeping the same cadaver for all the sessions) and also time to work with the prosections (pre-dissected sections, which are done well to basically highlight key areas) and computer programmes. Each week you have a different area of the body to focus on and that is what you dissect!

Years 1 and 2 are pretty identical in structure as described above, however 1st years tend to start at 9am and 2nd years start at 11am! A definite incentive to make it to 2nd year!! You will really appreciate those lie ins!!

I really enjoyed reading what I have to come, thanks Bex

Also, dissection really is that good! I have a semester of it left, but I think I'll miss it in an odd way when it's over! The exams are hardcore, but anatomy really is the best foundation for learning medicine (or I think so anyway!) so the effort is worth it.

I'm looking forward to those 11am starts too :P Oceana til 3am and no guilt this year!! Wooo, haha.

[Divin_doc]

Haha glad I can help!

Will you still be doing dissection in January?? I have my Special Study Module (SSM) in Dissection then so will be helping teach during the weekly sessions!! (oh dear god this means a heck of a lot of reading of Moore and Agur over the xmas hols!). If you do miss anatomy, you can opt to do it as your SSM in either 4th or 5th year. I chose it because I still dont know what I want to be career wise, so figured if I learnt anatomy really well then that would stand me in good sted for any career really (plus the teaching side of it means that you can put that on your CV!)

Yay for Oceana nights! Ahh Ive actually not been clubbing since Medics Cocktail party....GOD IM OLD Sad times, we're not all boring farts though, I am having a houseparty on friday....so I think Im mildly excused hahaha :P

[Summer Daisy]

No, it'll be the freshers starting dissection in January... I'll be bidding farewell to Shirley at the end of this term!

Not a bad idea about teaching it for SSM! It's not my best subject but I do enjoy it

We'll excuse you for having a house party definitely! Are you doing the celebrity cocktail party this year?? I'm excited already, although as I'm on MedSoc I probably won't end up drinking as much cocktail as last year...

[Divin_doc]

Anatomy wasn't my best subject either, but it doesnt really matter for SSM.

Wont be drinking as much!?!?!?!? You're in MedSoc! They're always the most wasted hahaha, set the standard for the freshers :P Ooh yes Im excited, we went as mime artists last year, worked really well....must start having a think about this year, everyone loves the cocktail party! Did you see the guys last year who went as an SAS helicopter team (with helicopter!) and the others who went as astronauts plus space shuttle!! I cant believe the effort that is put into it!

[JP_62818]

<Big cheer!> for SSM anatomy projects!
(Says the guy who isn't doing one, but was geeky enough to spend 3 months of BMedSci project being far too pre-occupied with foot dissection... and occasionally seeing tibialis anterior tendons when trying to go to sleep in the evenings... lol).

To merriweather, it seems you've had very comprehensive answers to your question, so I won't add much, except to echo what the other 2 said; that having more clinical stuff in the first 2 years really wouldn't help much. I think we've got a good amount to inspire interest (and give motivation for the other book-learning bits), without being too much that you're standing around feeling useless for not knowing enough of the book-learning bits!

Jamie