What A Cheek!

[Singh.Simran]

At the moment people are still banded, pushing up the averages.

I was under the impression whatever the hours is that certainly by the time we qualify people will be on no banding (which will be basic rate pay). Iono about anything else.

We should probably ask some real doctors.

[pipedreamer]

Banding is not just for the number of hours worked but also for doing antisocial hours. It is possible to work a 48 hour week job but still be banded if some of the hours are late evening, nights or weekends. I believe the whole of Band 1 is 48 hours or less, which means you could have a EWTD compliant job and still be on a 1A banding (1.5x).

Basic salary is £22k for F1, £27k for F2 so unless things change drastically that would be the minimum salary.

I am really loving my F1 year. It can occasionally be stressful but mostly it's interesting and good fun. If you put the effort in, get to know the team and make the most of the opportunities you will enjoy it and learn a lot.

[Spencer Wells]

I'm on 1A with London weighting and EWTD compliant (grand total £35,447) so it's perfectly possible. Most of my friends are on 1B for 2 of their rotations, with another rotation unbanded or 1C.

[Gizmo says -]

cant wait!

please.

[Medic1985]

I would agree with the above...I'm in the middle of my paperwork to start as an North East Thames FY1 this Aug and although our basic is just over £22k I've been told to expect bandings on 1.4 & 1.5 for my different F1 rotations. I think it's only the 1.8 banding which has been scrapped for this comign year (which was over the no. of hours allowed). Otherwise on just basic alongside PSL payments I might have been living on bread and cheese and maybe beans as a treat...

[Singh.Simran]

I thought the idea was to phase out banding across the board byt he time people like me qualify (if i do...)?

Meh.

5 years is a long time in medical politics, so it makes no real odds.

[Medic1985]

I'm not sure why they would phase out banding to be honest as some bands are still perfectly legal. Just because SOME bands are now illegal doesn't mean that you have to throw banding out of the window. If you take a look at IDWL: Working Hours - the basics then I think it helps explain the system in a bit more detail.
It looks like band 2b inclusive and upwards are now illegal. Hence why myself and a lot of other new FY1s this year will still be on 1.5 x basic (all perfectly legal).
Just my 2p...if you've heard banding is definitely being scrapped by the time you qualify that's pretty unfair on you guys cos you could still end up working band 1a as that's 48hrs etc and is therefore perfectly legal. I kow I'm going to be doing on-calls as part of my FY1 job so that's where the unsocial hours part of my banding comes from.

[nickbrazel]

The salary thing - a lot of places have unbanded jobs now, meaning that you could be on basic pay of £24k or whatever it will be in a few years (it does go up every year with inflation).

EWTD - max 48 hours per week. A doc working the "max" 48 hours (which, in my deanery at least, is entirely the norm with the 300+ F1s all being 40% banded) would be on band 1a/1b which is 40/50% extra, so approx £31k.

If you are unbanded - remember there are always opportunities to do locum jobs - even in F1. ALSO remember that if you are banded and already work 48 hours you can also do locum jobs (you would be personally opting out of the EWTD - which is allowed).

I think it is extremely unlikely that banding will completely disappear. The royal colleges of surgeons and anaesthetists recently published a statement damning the EWTD and what it is doing to training and I wouldn't be suprised if the DoH did a u-turn and completely got rid of it.

Just think how smaller hospitals would cope without correct F1+F2cover. I'm working in a tiny DGH next year, everyone is on 40% banding and the hospital wouldn't run properly without the junior doctor cover - despite the countless nurse practitioners the hospitals now need to run!

ALSO - remember that after tax £31k is only about £21k!!!

In general you are a 'dogs body' as an F1/F2 doing lots of fairly mindless jobs mixed in with episodes of sheer terror as you manage sick patients.

This of course really depends where you are working. In a largfe hospital you're likely to only be trusted with form filling and writing out drug cards whereas in a small DGH (like the one i've mentioned) you will be expected to do a lot more. I've seen F1s in the hospital i'm going to thrombolysing MIs for example which I know for a fact they wouldn't let you do in a larger centre.

[litte_puffin]

This is a really useful sight which lets you find out how much you will take home after tax, pernsion, NI and student loan:
Free UK PAYE Income Tax Calculator 2009. Updated for 2009 / 2010 tax year..

£21000 seem pitiful after 6 yrs at uni but on the other hand £1300 per month is so much more than i live on as a student i will feel very rich.

If as Nic says most of us will get around £31,000 then im really pleased with our starting salary (will not be able to spend all of that!). My dad is a qualified and experienced drugs and alcohol counselor who has just got a good new job and will only be on £28,000, if someone commits suicide or OD's then he will be the one people will question. So more responsibility than a regular job but probably less than an FY1, yet we will get paid more than him but will have no experience.

From speaking to FY1's many still have on-calls (good for experience and pay) and are banded. Though we have all spent hours moaning about the EWTD it seem purely from a individual POV that it isn't as bad as feared. It remains to be seen whether the increased number of hand overs and lack of continuity of care will have a major detrimental effect on our patients.

NB my experience probably applied to the London deaneries cant speak for outside London.

[AR1972]

[QUOTE=nickbrazel;680869]


ALSO - remember that after tax £31k is only about £21k!!!


[QUOTE]

It's about £25k really. The Govt aren't that cruel.....

-----> 31000 - 6500 (personal allowance)

= 24500 * 20% (basic rate tax payer) = 4900

31000 - 4900 - ~1000 for NI = 25600.

So you can now have butter on your toast.......