Banding in the future

**pacoblue** · 13-02-2010, 04:06 PM

hi all, im one of the final years worried about the impact of EWTD.
It means, we can't work more than 48/wk right?
so in near future, are they planning to remove ALL the bandings from training posts?
I remember my registrar who was telling me how she gets paid less than her SHO...

I mean, after 6 years of medical school, the basic pay seems little to low to be honest.

Once we become consultant (if we are lucky that is), is it end of the story though? I've heard a lot about the private practice but, with government's new target and stuff, surely there would be less opportunity in private sector. Furthermore, as I understand it's extremely difficult for new consultants to get into private market because of the small cohorts of older consultants whos dominating the market?

I've done some search on US training, how come they get paid so much more after much shorter training when we get so little? In the US, people who has done 3 years of residency in medicine (yes straight out of med school) often get offered a job with 150k USD - UK consultants starting pay!!

**James** · 14-02-2010, 01:23 AM

They are always going to need doctors covering the wards out-of-hours. With hospital and night and the introduction of nurse practitioners they have reduced the numbers of doctors needed, but you will always need a core team of doctors to run the hospital safely overnight. Because of this banding is hear to stay in the core specialities (medicine, surgery, anaesthetics, A&E), but is likely to go in other more specialised fields and for the most junior doctors.

Yes the basic pay of a junior doctor is low, especially if you compare it to your friends in the commercial sector who will be earning significantly more. Will the government do anything about this in the economic climate - no.

As you say private practice is shrinking rapidly, with the introduction of tight government targets patients don't have to wait any more and don't need to go privately.

I have worked in the US and would never want to again. Yes you get paid more but the health inequality is just barbaric for a supposed civilised country. I guess it depends on what you want out of life.

I also have no doubt that some 'holier than thou' prospective med-student will come along in a second and tell you that you are money-grabbing scum and we should be paying the NHS for the privilege of being doctors. Well I have worked my ass off for the past 10+ years and made massive sacrifices to my personal life for my career. I also make life and death decisions every day and TBH for that kind of responsibility and sacrifice I want a decent wage, not a high wage, but enough to pay the mortgage, run a car and one holiday a year - not to much to ask

**House Jr.** · 14-02-2010, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by James

They are always going to need doctors covering the wards out-of-hours. With hospital and night and the introduction of nurse practitioners they have reduced the numbers of doctors needed, but you will always need a core team of doctors to run the hospital safely overnight. Because of this banding is hear to stay in the core specialities (medicine, surgery, anaesthetics, A&E), but is likely to go in other more specialised fields and for the most junior doctors.

Yes the basic pay of a junior doctor is low, especially if you compare it to your friends in the commercial sector who will be earning significantly more. Will the government do anything about this in the economic climate - no.

As you say private practice is shrinking rapidly, with the introduction of tight government targets patients don't have to wait any more and don't need to go privately.

I have worked in the US and would never want to again. Yes you get paid more but the health inequality is just barbaric for a supposed civilised country. I guess it depends on what you want out of life.

I also have no doubt that some 'holier than thou' prospective med-student will come along in a second and tell you that you are money-grabbing scum and we should be paying the NHS for the privilege of being doctors. Well I have worked my ass off for the past 10+ years and made massive sacrifices to my personal life for my career. I also make life and death decisions every day and TBH for that kind of responsibility and sacrifice I want a decent wage, not a high wage, but enough to pay the mortgage, run a car and one holiday a year - not to much to ask

money grabbing scumbag! how dare you question your wage when you have the privilage of becoming a doctor in this country?!

just joking XD

the wage does seem quite low if you consider that you've been in uni for 6 years, but it does increase year on year and the wage is still above average and the job security is great when you compare it to other jobs such as in business. It probably wouldn't do you much good to compare the wage to other jobs since the wage you receive for a particular job isn't necessarily fair. However, i heard that getting a medical degree in this country basically entitles you to an all access passport to work in any country around the world, so if you want to go to a country which pay their doctors well then you could probably do that.

**melon** · 19-02-2010, 06:20 PM

I think everything James said is absolutely spot on. This is the problem with vocational careers. People really want to do them regardless and so they will put up with lower pay than expected for that level of study/experience (at first anyway).

**Faye101** · 19-02-2010, 06:30 PM

My boyfriend did a comp sci degree. When he graduated from uni he went into a job where he was earning £12,000 per year. I think you need to get some perspective. You can't compare NHS pay to the private sector as the NHS is the public sector. If you compare pay for doctors working in the NHS to other public sector jobs I think you'll find they get quite a bit more.

**Clarkey** · 22-02-2010, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Faye101

My boyfriend did a comp sci degree. When he graduated from uni he went into a job where he was earning £12,000 per year. I think you need to get some perspective. You can't compare NHS pay to the private sector as the NHS is the public sector. If you compare pay for doctors working in the NHS to other public sector jobs I think you'll find they get quite a bit more.

I agree that comparing the public and private sector can be misleading, but I also think that people forget that medical degrees can be double the length of a standard undergraduate degree, and that the starting salary (especially with the removal of free accomodation and banding changes) is low.

I don't think anyone in the thread is saying that they will be destitute, but after 7 years at uni and around £30,000 of debt it is a consideration!

**James** · 22-02-2010, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Faye101

My boyfriend did a comp sci degree. When he graduated from uni he went into a job where he was earning £12,000 per year. I think you need to get some perspective. You can't compare NHS pay to the private sector as the NHS is the public sector. If you compare pay for doctors working in the NHS to other public sector jobs I think you'll find they get quite a bit more.

In 1997 I went to med school, at the same time 5 of my close school friends went to do a variety of degrees around the country. We all had similar grades, are from similar backgrounds and are similarly motivated. As a fourth year registrar I earn ~45k with banding. The lowest earning of my group of friends in on double that, the highest earning is on 5 times my salary. On top of this they have all been earning for 3 years longer than me and came out of uni with much lower debts.

Despite this I am happy with my choice of career and I have the highest job satisfaction of my group.

**foxyamy** · 22-02-2010, 09:18 PM

1. The average dr. salary puts them at no. 2 in the league table for earnings in the UK:
UK SALARIES (0-150) | This is Money
I know that is based on consultant wages, but most of the other jobs which are in the top few are also at the senior level, where you have had to go to uni for several years (i.e. getting MBA etc.) and fight off really stiff competition and do the job for many years.

2. The reason wages are so high in the US are because of how much debt they build up to go to uni, the fact that they already go to uni for 3/4 years before they even go to medical school, and the fact that it costs so much for insurance because everyone is ready to sue your ass off if it goes wrong.

Don't get me wrong - I agree that I think docs deserve to earn well given their responsibility, but at the end of the day, there are only limited resources to spend on health care, so the wages are never going to increase massively beyond inflation.