Call for vaccine opt-out penalty

[Admin]

Tough sanctions are being proposed for parents who refuse routine vaccinations, such as MMR.

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[Muffin2]

i read about this earlier and 100% agree. its not just about the protection of one child, but whol communities.
we can't risk an outbreak of a serious disease because of a few peoples ignorance.
the research about autism and MMR has been completely discredited, with those involved withdrawing their support for the paper.

[Varied A]

Do we really want to start along the road of forcing people to undergo medical procedures which they don't want?

[Muffin2]

there's a difference between medical procedures and vaccinations.
the medical procedure will only affect the health of the person concerned, the missing of a vaccine however will results in out breaks of whatever disease it was for. harming the health of not only the person but those around them.

[469er]

There are a range of reasons why parents avoid vaccinations, or a specific vaccination, and I find it incredibly arrogant when doctors (or medical students for that matter) presume both to know and to disparage them. I find it interesting that herd immunity is declared to be the responsibility of each and every one of us when the complications that can arise for an individual as a result of vaccine damage are the problem of the individual family alone. Perhaps when the state assumes moral and financial responsibility for such children (as in the US), parents will feel more public spirited. I also find it utterly odious that the person quoted in the original article speaks in terms of vaccination of children being a mother's responsibility.

[Muffin2]

yeah the whole "mothers responsibity" touched a nerve with me as well. its wrong to presume the mother is the primary care giver in 2008.
and i don't really care if you think i'm arrogant, its common knowledge it was that ridiculous paper on MMR and autism that sparked this all off. it just goes to show how one badly written paper can cause such havock. paniced parents and measles and mumps outbreaks.
and no offense, but i thought herd immunity relied on people taking the responsibilty to be vaccinated. currently no one can force vaccination so technically it is the responsibilty of each and everyone of us.
and why should the government take responsibilty if things go wrong if, as it stands at the moment, the vaccination was a choice. fair enough if it were to become compulsory the government should take responsibility, but not now.
i just know any kids of mine will have every vaccine going.

[Singh.Simran]

I'm afraid that if one will submit to laws prevent harm to others by assult, one will take the community's pros by using the NHS, schools, help with childcare costs, etc, then one loses the right to opt out of reasonable things such as this which directly affect the health of the community, without good reason.

I think it would be a brilliant but unlikely proposal.

[Varied A]

Originally Posted by Muffin2

yeah the whole "mothers responsibity" touched a nerve with me as well. its wrong to presume the mother is the primary care giver in 2008.
and i don't really care if you think i'm arrogant, its common knowledge it was that ridiculous paper on MMR and autism that sparked this all off. it just goes to show how one badly written paper can cause such havock. paniced parents and measles and mumps outbreaks.
and no offense, but i thought herd immunity relied on people taking the responsibilty to be vaccinated. currently no one can force vaccination so technically it is the responsibilty of each and everyone of us.
and why should the government take responsibilty if things go wrong if, as it stands at the moment, the vaccination was a choice. fair enough if it were to become compulsory the government should take responsibility, but not now.
i just know any kids of mine will have every vaccine going.

I don't disagree that more people should be vaccinated. I do not think that they should be forced into doing so.

As for the NHS sorting out peoples' bad lifestyle choices - the majority of MIs, strokes, lung cancers, road traffic accidents, COPD cases and so on are mostly or entirely the responsibility of the individual who has them. It's what we do. If people did everything "right" (if that's even possible), I think that you, me and most of the rest of this forum would be out of a job pretty quickly!

[469er]

Originally Posted by Muffin2

its common knowledge it was that ridiculous paper on MMR and autism that sparked this all off. it just goes to show how one badly written paper can cause such havock. paniced parents and measles and mumps outbreaks.

This is precisely what I meant when I said it was arrogant to presume you know what people's reasons are. I have three children, who do not have their full complement of vaccinations. I have my reasons for this, and they are well researched and long considered - and they have nothing to do with "that ridiculous paper on MMR and autism"; nor do I feel panicked. If I had a pound for every doctor and health visitor who had assumed just what you have assumed, however, I could take myself out for a nice lunch. I know a lot of parents (including a number of medical professionals and one immunologist!) who have reservations about one or more of the childhood vaccinations, and in my experience it is never a kneejerk reaction by ignorant people, so much as a considered response reached after a lot of fact-finding. On the contrary, panicky, ignorant parents who tend to believe whatever they read in the tabloids are the most likely to do exactly what their doctor tells them.

and no offense

lol!

but i thought herd immunity relied on people taking the responsibilty to be vaccinated.

Yes, my point was that if the individual is expected to care about the herd, it's perhaps only fair that the herd should be prepared to take equal responsibility for the individual, if things go wrong. Not currently the case.

and i don't really care if you think i'm arrogant

Clearly. I was actually speaking generally, but if the cap fits... You ought to care (or at least ought to learn to pretend you do) by the time you qualify, though. You'll come across plenty of patients like me over the years. Unless you decide to specialise in pathology. Which perhaps you should.

i just know any kids of mine will have every vaccine going.

Your kids, your prerogative. Which I believe brings my argument full circle.

[NorthernLight]

Forcing people to have vaccinations? I suppose already children don't have the choice, it's made by their parents . . . and now we think it's a good idea to force the parents . . .
I suppose I can understand the superficial attraction of this as an idea but I really don't agree with it. People are already being led down the path of losing respect for doctors and doubting the motives of people involved in healthcare (led by some pretty unsubtle establishment propaganda) and this would just accelerate the process.
If you want to be a doctor sat in front of an adult who doesn't want you sticking needles in their small child but being forced to let you because of some law . . . well, if you can imagine that situation and not feel like you're in the wrong profession then you're in the wrong profession . . .

For the record I'm a big fan of vaccination. I'm also a big fan of cricket, but everyone who might visit my surgery won't have to be.