Quit my job, and applying to GEM

[Economister]

That's very harsh of them. I'm glad you found a place elsewhere.

[new2newmedia]

That does suck! Was it a stand alone masters, or was is a BA/BSc that you extended in to a MA/MSc?

I suppose it's just a convention. Some of the Scottish universities don't award BSc/BA degrees for a lot of their four year courses, instead giving an MA. I don't have a BA/BSc, just an "Undergraduate MA". It can sometime be slightly confusing for employers.

Warwick though seemed absolutely baffled and we had a good few rounds of emails before they told me that my degree did not meet their entrance requirements so my application was unsuccessful. It's ever so slightly worrying that an admissions team that will need to cope with degrees from all over the world were so stumped by....Scotland....however if I'd double checked this in advance then I wouldn't have wasted a place.

I would say this is all slightly aggravated by them changing their policy from next year so that all degrees 2:1+ meet the entry requirements after they made such a fuss but, to be honest, I don't think that Warwick was the right place for me and I'm glad fate pushed me towards the more expensive but hopefully more suitable course. Getting in anywhere was the first priority after all.

[Martigan]

I have to admit, my understanding is that Warwick didn't accept non-science before 2013, but haven't looked into it in detail.

But as they did, I really can't understand why they don't accept your masters as it includes a Bachelors degree!
I could understand a little more if it was a standalone masters, as it only assumes, but doesn't always require a knowledge base.

However, the more I spend time with uni administration the more I find perverse and illogical practices that have been lodged in the culture.

It’s a bit like the evolution that occurred in the Galapagos islands, where by being isolated from the rest of the world it developed its own distinct creature set. Well in uni’s, because they are protected and isolated from a lot or the “real” / commercial world, culture and practice have developed that would not survive outside the HE sector...

[Zedd]

As far as I'm aware the whole way 'BA/MA' degrees are taught in Scotland is different to elsewhere (i.e. the rest of the UK). I'll give you an example:

In the past (junior honours) year I had four thirty credit courses, two in the first session and two in the second session. Amongst my chosen courses was an 'independent study' in which I chose a topic, found myself a supervisor, and then once the aim of the paper was decided I basically had eight weeks to complete a 5,000 word essay without tutoring or any of the support usually given in taught courses. In total I did around 17,700 words of papers in my junior honours. In the upcoming (senior honours) year I have a non-optional 10,000 word dissertation, and three other courses each requiring that I complete 7,000 words of papers as well as leading a seminar and giving a presentation. Each of those courses are worth 30 credits and provide 3 hours contact time per week (excluding the dissertation which provides no contact time). So for the senior honours component of my MA(Hons) I'll be doing 31,000 words and 3 presentations of work.

In contrast if you look at a philosophy degree provided by the likes of KCL (BA Philosophy) they allow for a dissertation to be optional and if selected that it be taught: "To count towards their third year Level 6 requirement students may choose to write an 8,000 word Dissertation for 30 credits, taught over the course of the year by one-to-one tutorials with a member of staff."[1] (See 'Year 3') I don't have the workload for senior honours students studying philosophy at the likes of KCL but I did have a course guide for a postgraduate MA course called 'Topics in the Philosophy of Medicine' (course code: 7AAN4095) in which the requirement was that students should complete three 2,000 word essays and sit a 3 hour end of course examination for 40 credits.

This won't get the whole picture but the general feeling that I get (a feeling which is strengthened by whiny English students complaining about lack of contact time)* is that in Scotland we get very little in the way of a taught component and the work load that's expected of us has to be done quickly over a short period and off of our own backs. The impression I get of arts degrees in England is one of drawn out deadlines, small workloads, and spoon fed information.

In short: MA(Hons) are at the very least equivalent to BA(Hons) if not superior and I think it's a shame that Warwick were so petty about your degree n2nm.

*I want to add to that comment that I've got nothing against English or anyone else but I have never heard any other nationality of student complain about a lack of contact time.

[Profanius]

I'm not sure Scotland is unique in awarding four year MA degrees. Integrated Masters degrees are offered by a number of English universities. As an example the MChiro degree is a four year masters awarded at Bournemouth and some other Unis, and is regarded as superior to a bachelors. At a guess I would say that Warwick's problem was with the "A" part rather than the "M". Economics can be awarded as an Arts or a Science degree and the their problem might have been that it was classified as an arts degree and didn't meet their science only criteria. An MSc in Economics might have had a different result. I've known people to have similar problems with the Natural Sciences degree at Cambridge - which strangely is awarded as a BA.

Either way I think we can all agree that it sucks that new2newmedia got shafted on one of his choices and the MA/BA/BSc classification shouldn't have made a difference.

As for "whiny English" students I think this is more to do with the A-level system as it is now. The entire syllabus is laid out on a plate and spoon fed to students. Everything is done for them, such as being told what will and won't be in an exam and what is worth studying. With this as a background I'd imagine any university environment would be a culture shock to it's students, regardless of national origin.

My own experience of Uni was mostly self directed study and very little tutor-student interaction. Although I think a lot of this was down to general apathy and lack of interest from the academic staff. Ofcourse this was <cough> a few years ago and expectations were different. Either way it's down to the University, the course structure and the staff rather than some national divide.

[Zedd]

It's not an undergraduate MA in the sense that you might get an undergraduate MChem or MPhys et cetera. Moreover, the entrance requirements aren't higher than that of 4 year BSc courses and in most cases they are lower. Agree with you on everything else though!

[kingdizzii]

It's a shame with what happened with you new2newmedia but it's good that things worked out for you. Honestly would expect the uni to know about all of this though one would expect them to be experts at it. My cousin sister applied this year to dentistry and Kings, Barts GEP bailed on her last minute which put her in hysterics. The EU situation made Kings and Barts stop graduate dentistry but the bigger issue was just how much one of those two in particular screwed her around, it was absolutely terrible! It's so hard getting into medicine and dentistry GEP as it is so being screwed around really does not make things easier. I do believe my cousins sitution was unique because she's insane, blaming family over what was happening but have faith in the world that most are not like her, if so god help all those families with people applying to GEP medicine/dentistry. :P

But you got a place, East Anglia sounds lovely and most importantly of all you are going to be a doctor so enjoy!