Calling All Fellow Oldies (Barts or Kings)

[FattyAcid]

Hi Oldies!

A year ago I'd have been happy to get into any medical school. Now I'm still amazed to be sitting on several offers. I narrowed it down to Kings or Barts (both 5 yr) and am wondering if any of you are at either school and whether you'd be kind enough to share your honest experiences.

I've talked to students, read the prospectuses forwards and backwards, seen the GMC reports on each, explored forums - it doesn't make choosing any easier!

Here are some of my thoughts - could you please feedback and say:
Future Medics - whether these points are important to you or if I'm missing the mark

or

Current Medics - if you thought these factors would be important, and whether they ended up really being as important as you thought.

1) Barts has a higher % of grads but it doesn't necessarily mean that they're all 'mature' or like minded I suppose. Should I even be considering this as a factor?
I completed my A levels at night school last year and got on with my classmates of all ages and cultures.

2) Guys campus at Kings and the area really appealed to me. Barts has some amazing buildings but is in a tattier part of London that doesn't currently inspire me although the diversity is superb and I'm willing to forego a "nice" environment if other factors are more important. Do you get used to the environment, does it kind of become invisible as you live there longer? Both should expose me to a large variety of diseases to learn from. Travel is not an issue for either.

3) Awesome reputations for both. Kings is perhaps more globally recognised but Barts is currently flying up the ranks. This is not such a big issue, just including it so you don't have to!

4) Kings has the fantastic Gordon Museum and is really strong on anatomy/dissection. Anatomy is less strong at Barts (but satisfies the GMC) and they have been commended on the really good clinical skills centre

5) Kings has a superb 'Virtual Campus' where everything, lecture notes, learning resources are constantly updated online and accessible from anywhere.

6) I like Barts' spiral curriculum, revisiting topics, adding to and reinforcing knowledge each time. Kings prospectus is slightly vague only saying Communication is taught via a spiral curriculum. Can anyone at Kings clarify?

7) No idea if PBL at Barts or whether traditional lectures + small group work at Kings is suited to me. Any input here appreciated. Posts on forums say that Barts concentrates more on practical aspects of medicine and less "sciencey" academic stuff.

8) Kings intake is 335 vs 260 at Barts. Perhaps this is why they say Barts is a friendlier more personal experience and that Kings admin have a more difficult job of getting everyone organised. True or false?

9) Clinical placements in the later years are concentrated more nearer home at Barts whereas at Kings they can extend quite far. Although accommodation is provided I don't want to live apart from family

That's it, any comments and input appreciated!

Both are amazing but I would love to hear your thoughts and even if you're not an oldy please do feel free to comment too.
And please PM me if needed

Thanks a lot in advance

[roz86]

Hi I too am suck trying to decide between Barts and Kings, I am so happy to have the offers but I really am struggling to make a decision! I think both schools are equally good and studying anywhere in London should be an amazing experience, with some of the best teaching, research and facilities.

My barts offer is a 4 year, while the kings is a 5 year. Obviously the 4 year is preferable for many reasons, althou I should point as a Scottish student I would pay the same either way! However my dilema is I'm really interested in Pathology and would love a career in forensic pathology. While I'm open to other specialities, and have a few others I can't wait to experience, such as oncology, I've been interested in pathology for a while and currently feel it's what I'd specialise in.

So.. I know kings anatomy teaching is reknown and getting to do dissections would be really great, but what I'm wondering is if it really makes a difference in the long run? If I do choose to specialise in pathology would it be better to have gone to kings? Would it make a difference to potential employers? Or do all they really care about is that you have a medicine degree and then would look at your experience/other degrees/skills etc.

Any help would be great?

Also to add to your point 8, when I was at kings they metioned the intake as around 400! It's a large course, they did say that when you reach clinical years you still get lots of small group tuition, but it worries me none the less.

[millietwigg]

The Royal London is based in Whitechapel which isn't a nice prospect but within a couple of days, you really don't notice that. It is worth noting that the new hospital behind the Royal London in opening in 12-18 months and will be the largest teaching hospital in London. By the time either of you are in the clinical years, this new state of the art hospital will be open for you to do your firms on.

Barts does do PBL but isn't completely a PBL based syllabus. I thought that I would dislike PBL vs lectures but I really enjoy it. You get out of it what you put into it.

Apparently the new intake for 2011 will be 80% grads at Barts. It was 60% in 2010. I am a grad and haven't had any problems being on a course with the school leavers or with the older people on the course. It is a really friendly uni, not at all stuffy.

Anatomy at Barts is okay but if you are interested in anatomy, you take an SSC in dissection which is what I did. You then get 2 weeks of exclusive dissection. That was a fantastic experience, if not a little grim at times!

Also, Barts and the London came second overall this year for MTAS points....that is a really big deal. Employers will definitely be interested in this!

I am biased of course and I'm sure that the guys at GKT would say the same for their uni. It comes down to personal preference and only you know what will suit you but I haven't regretted choosing Barts once If you have any questions though, feel free to ask away.

[Лигаментиа]

I cant comment on course-wise, however in terms of living and location - it will be much cheaper living near barts compared to kings(although the area doesnt suit everyone)

Both schools are great though, however another factor to consider is your future career path (i.e. although producing competent doctors, some courses are a little more tailored towards some specialities). All the best

---

Newcastle GEP: Firm
Warwick GEP: (Offer)Declined

[FattyAcid]

Hi Roz,
Thanks for the info about the King's cohort size - 400 is pretty huge.
Just to add to your point about potential employers - I read somewhere that applications for foundation posts are done blind i.e. they don't know which medical school you attended so that may remove one worry from your decision making process.

[FattyAcid]

Great info millietwig thanks,
Fast reply too - so I really appreciate it
I'm taking you up on your offer of questions!

If someone doesn't pull their weight how much does that really affect the rest of the PBL group? Being a peanut brain, I like the idea that combined with lectures, it's an additional method to reinforce learning. Topics are nicely timed to coincide right?

"80% grads for 2011" By jove! Where did you hear this?

One thing I liked about Guy's campus at King's was the communal quadrangle area, a nice natural gathering place. Where does everyone hang out at Whitechapel at Barts? (only relevant in Summer I suppose, if at all)

How much time do you spend travelling between different campuses? e.g. to Mile End?

Finally, is there anything about Barts that could be done better?

[roz86]

Thanks for the info about the SSC's, I had heard this was possible, but since I'm doing the 4yr I don't get any SSC in the first year and not sure if I can take them in my other years. I'm going to an open day next week so will ask them then.

I know for the foundation applications you don't enter the medical school you go/went to, but I presume you do when you specialise? Also I'm considering applying to residency courses in America and don't know which would look better to them. I had a suspicion maybe kings as they seem to have a better international reputation.

It's a hard choice, both have good and bad points, I'm hoping that the open day will clear things up for me. Is there one for the undergrad course you could attend?

[millietwigg]

Fatty Acid:
1) If someone doesn't pull their weight in PBL, it doesn't really cause too much of a problem because there are 5 or 6 other people to do the talking. If 5 people can't be bothered to give any input, that is a problem because the work is then left for the other guys. However, this is really unlikely as you always have a facilitator in the group whose role it is, among others, to ensure that everyone participates in the discussion. We are encouraged to bring up problems with PBL in anonymous questionnaires done via the internet after each module. The lectures are all times to coincide with the pbl sessions which usually works well. (We did have a lecturer taken ill recently and missed a critical lecture. The next PBL session was interesting as none of the group were particularly well versed in the details of pituitary tumours and their effects That is obviously a rare situation)

80% grads for the 2011 intake came from the head of year 1. A reasonably reliable source!

As for a communal space, we don't have an open space like the quadrangle at Kings. However, there are green spaces at the mile end campus where lots of people go when it is sunny. The students union at Whitechapel is also being renovated this summer I believe and so will be used a lot more. (It isn't bad now)

Travelling between the 2 campuses is a non-issue. It takes literally 10 minutes on the 25 bus which stops outside the Royal London and QMUL. In the first and second year, you rarely go to Mile End more than once a week. In the clinical years, I don't think that you go to mile end much. You only go over there for anatomy, lab based practicals and exams.

As far as improvements, I would say that a real criticism is the Royal London itself. However, the new hospital building looks incredible and will be open really soon.

Just a note on HEMS, if you are interested in emergency medicine and trauma, the SSCs are very competitive to get onto. However, I have more than a few friends who have been into the A&E department, found the HEMS guys and have been invited out in the fast response cars etc. I am always amazed at how approachable everyone is at the London.

Roz, there are open days for the 5 year course. There is a post offer open day at some point, I can't remember when that is. You may have missed it.
Regarding USMLE stuff. I am thinking about taking the first set of exams next summer as I would also like to practice in the states. I'm sure that if you study medicine at any university in the capital city, it will be looked upon favourably. I also wonder whether the results themselves will say much more for you than the institution that you study at but that is merely a musing.

Barts isn't for everyone but if you do decide to go, you will be welcomed in wholeheartedly. Sorry, that is a stupidly long message!

[roz86]

Yeah with the USMLE I'd imagine the results are more important then the school you went to, but I've read on other threads that the first part of the exam is easier if you've done a more lecture-based course?! But on the other hand I don't mind a bit of hard work so I'm hoping that won't really affect me. Just read that it can be pretty hard to get into america with a UK degree and want to give myself the best chance, I figure having done an elective in America can't hurt. When I go down to the open day gonna see what the chances of electives etc in America are. The post offer open day is next Wed so heading down then to see what I think.

thanks for taking the time to help, your stupidly long message is very much appreciated!

[FattyAcid]

Roz, is that the post offer open day for Barts or Kings?

Miilietwig & Лигаментиа, I also appreciated your messages too - thanks.

All we need now is someone to post their experience of King's....