Finance: Previous degree equal or higher to medicine degree

[DPSM]

Dave, see below:

Dear BIS,

I am writing to you regarding your current ELQ policy with respect to 5 year Medical Degree courses.

The regulatory requirements you are required to adhere to are described in The Education (Student Support) (No. 2) Regulations 2008, as per the following link:

The Education (Student Support) (No.2) Regulations 2008

The policy of BIS, HEFCE and the Student Loans Company with respect to ELQ and Medicine is described in the following link:

http://www.hefce.ac.uk/learning/faqs...ar_handout.DOC

To quote:

"The second edition of the Framework for Higher Education Qualifications in England, Wales and Northern Ireland states (in paragraph 43) that the final outcomes of first degrees in medicine, dentistry and veterinary science typically meet the expectations of the descriptor for a higher education qualification at Level 7. However, for ELQ purposes only, these qualifications should continue to be treated as if they were at Level 6."

I understand that BIS has recently issued guidance to the Student Loans Company reinforcing the view described in the above text.

I am requesting, under the Freedom of Information Act, that you supply me with the following information:

1) When was the decision taken by the BIS to treat Medicine for ELQ purposes as if it had Level 6 learning outcomes? Please include details of all meetings at which this was discussed, including times, dates etc.

2) Please supply the minutes of all meetings at which this issue was discussed and - most pertinently - at the meeting where the final decision was taken.

3) Please supply copies of all evidence incorporated into the evaluation of the learning outcomes of Medical degrees, including correspondence with Professionals, Universities, the Student Loans Company, the QAA and any and all Government Departments (including their Ministers and Civil Servants).

4) Finally, please provide a full justification of the legal reasoning (according to the regulations linked to above) as to why BIS is treating Medical Degrees for the purposes of ELQ as if they had Level 6 learning outcomes, alongside copies of the guidance recently issued to the Student Loans Company by your Policy Team which clarifies this issue.

I anticipate that you are going to attempt to apply the exemption allowed for in the Freedom of Information Act regarding the formulation of Government Policy.

To save you some time, I am going to tell you now that I do not regard the information I am requesting as being government policy, since the policy is actually described in the The Education (Student Support) (No. 2) Regulations 2008. What I am requesting information for is the guidance issued regarding the implementation of that specific policy, which I believe to be fundamentally flawed
and in open and flagrant contradiction of a great deal significant evidence available.

Yours faithfully,

To clarify, similar requests have been submitted to HEFCE and the Student Loans Company.

[freshfish]

This situation is getting a bit over my head at the moment, there is no clarification whatsoever and its getting real close to enrolement for everyone starting this year. I am just about to send off my appeal letter when I get the queens level 7 conformation letter. The last time I rang my local ELB (in NI) they said to write my appeal even though I have not yet had my assessment for support finialised. Apparently they are taking the issue to the ELB and info about this would be sent once they recieve my appeal, no indication of when this will be.

[melika1990]

Hi guys, what about doing a 5 year course for people who have already done a degree. I heard the NHS pays for the last year. How can I support myself during my first four years, considering I am single, have no children, no job and no parents to support me. Any help really appreciated. Thanks

[Jhesam]

A bar job sounds like your best option to me. That or get a loan as bank managers should be getting all foamy at the prospect of your dolla rolling in for the rest of your life.

[DPSM]

A bar job sounds like your best option to me. That or get a loan as bank managers should be getting all foamy at the prospect of your dolla rolling in for the rest of your life.

As I have said to others, government-sponsored career-development loans are an eminently viable option, as the government will pay the interest on the loan up until the point at which your course finishes.

There is also a Charity administered by the British Medical Association specifically for medical students with previous degrees.

Beyond that, if you joined the Armed Forces you would have your tuition fees paid for years 2/3/4 and be given a wage of up to £17k (assuming you were successful in securing a Medical Cadetship, and they ARE competitive).

[Jolt]

Beyond that, if you joined the Armed Forces you would have your tuition fees paid for years 2/3/4 and be given a wage of up to £17k (assuming you were successful in securing a Medical Cadetship, and they ARE competitive).

Always tempting, but you have to deal with being the army/navy/RAF's bitch for the few years after you finish your degree though.

Another possible income stream is volunteering for clinical trials.

[DPSM]

Always tempting, but you have to deal with being the army/navy/RAF's bitch for the few years after you finish your degree though.

Yes, I appreciate to some people the notion would seem horrific. You are expected to serve a return of service of six years as a quid pro quo for sponsorship.

You can elect to complete FY1/2 either in civillian or military hospitals. Upon completion, it is just as conceivable that you would be working in Gibraltar or Cyprus as Afghanistan, although obviously you are unlikely to have discretion over this.

Another possible income stream is volunteering for clinical trials.

For those feeling brave!

[dotvicky]

Just had my completely useless and frustrating reply from the SLC:

Dear (Name Removed To Protect The Ranty)

Thank you for your email regarding your appeal.

We are unable to proceed with your appeal at this time as we are awaiting further guidance on this issue. We will communicate with you regarding this as soon as possible.

Yours sincerely


(Name Removed To Protect The Not-So-Innocent)
Formal Appeals Stage 1
Student Finance England

[cocopop]

Here's mine.

Dear Mr Thomas,

Formal Appeal Stage 2

Thank you for your e-mail dated 25/08/2010.

As a result, your Formal Appeal has been progressed to Stage 2 of the Student Finance England Formal Appeals procedure. Unfortunately, we are not in a position to answer your query as we are awaiting the appropriate advice from the Policy Team at the Department for Business, Innovation, and Skills. We will answer your appeal once we have received the appropriate advice. Your appeal will remain on hold in the interim.

Yours sincerely

Formal Appeals Stage 2
Student Finance England

[DPSM]

Dear Mr Thomas,

Formal Appeal Stage 2

Thank you for your e-mail dated 25/08/2010.

As a result, your Formal Appeal has been progressed to Stage 2 of the Student Finance England Formal Appeals procedure. Unfortunately, we are not in a position to answer your query as we are awaiting the appropriate advice from the Policy Team at the Department for Business, Innovation, and Skills. We will answer your appeal once we have received the appropriate advice. Your appeal will remain on hold in the interim.

Yours sincerely

Formal Appeals Stage 2
Student Finance England

The highlighted bit is in start contradiction to the letter Jhesam received, which claimed they had already received fresh guidance from the Policy Team.

There is actually no new evidence in my FOI request at all.