Bit of a dilemma

**Kisses_x** · 17-03-2010, 01:32 AM

Hi, this is an interesting problem. Personally, I would chew off my right arm for a place, and I know every situations different, but for me it just wouldnt be worth the risk? I couldnt live with myself if I never got another offer!

Also, I dont know about this at all, but just a thought? If you reapply next year could you possibly be looked less fovourable on because you turned down an offer purely due to cost? It might show your not as committed as some? Like I say, I have no idea if this will have any bearing, I just know that people get rejected for all sorts of reasons due to the fierce competetion.

x

**yazoo** · 17-03-2010, 02:08 AM

This thread is quite interesting!

I think it all boils down to concept of risk/benefit. Everybody is different. Everybody needs to work to their own bottom line. And that can vary a LOT!

I wouldn't have been prepared to risk a place. That was my bottom line. I wouldn't change it with hindsight. So I find it quite hard to undestand when someone makes a different decision. Indeed, I do not fully understand.

I suspect that fortune favours the brave. But equally, I know there is more than one way to interpret bravery in is this thread!

**Chwirkytheappleboy** · 17-03-2010, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by GenericName

Whhhaatt, that doesn't seem right. £14k is an insane amount to live in London. I spend around £10k a year and that's in a place with rent = £120ish a week plus bills of £50 a month. No idea what you think is 'minimalist' but if you're spending £14k a year to live here, you're doing it wrong....

When I say living costs I actually bundle all my expenditure into there, so there's lots of stuff that you haven't counted. I try to budget absolutely everything I spend so that I can get a good handle on exactly what my financial position is / will be.

My rent is £130pw, travel is budgeted at £10pw assuming that I walk the usual trip to college, and only use Oyster for longer distances. Bills are budgeted at £900 based on what I've been paying so far, food is £30pw, and so is combined social/activities/sports costs. Clothing has an estimate of £300 a year and I have charitable commitments of £552 a year (these are long term commitments I made a long time ago and can't really stop them for med school). My mobile phone contract is £18 a month, toiletries and medication is budgeted at £7.50 per week, contact lenses at £72 per year (assuming I usually wear glasses and only occasional daily contacts), visiting family at £200 per year (10 trips to Bristol or Leicester over a year, at £20 each). I also include a budget of £1k per year for items which are unexpected, exceptional, or forgotten from the budget. Birthday/Wedding/Christmas presents (and their associated travel costs) is a good example but there are loads of other things that get consumed within that figure, Over the last couple of years I've found that to be a fairly accurate amount. Anyway, that sums to about £14k

Originally Posted by Frank's mum

I'd accept the King's offer and wait to see if they then change it to a 4 year offer once they have all decisions in from the offers they have made. They do this to some people every year. You should hear in the summer iof that's going to happen and then you could still decline the 5 year offer, although it may make it difficult to re-apply to King's.

As for the difference in finances between the two courses, as a SSM I did a huge spreadsheet of income and expenses for every medicine course (it was exploring the idea that people self select themselves for medicine due to reluctance to get into debt) and the difference between the Gep and the 5 year was not that much as there is much less opportunity to earn money in the shorter holidays. Also you need to be an independant student (check the rules for this) to qualify for the bursary, there are some students on the Gep who get only fees paid, nothing else, as they are not classed as independant.

I was on the 5 year (well, 6 with foundation), and managed to earn 6k per year and I have a child to take care of, a friend of mine earned much more as he had more spare hours and no child. I worked until Christmas of the fourth year and only stopped as I lost my job and decided it was a sign to concentrate on my studies, so you can work during clinical years.

Thanks, that was very useful. Definitely some stuff to think about there

I'm glad I started this thread, there's been a lot of really thought-provoking stuff said

**GenericName** · 17-03-2010, 04:23 AM

Ouch! Your costs seem so high for rent+bills, are you sure it wouldn't be cheaper to commute from an area with cheaper rent? Also, do you live alone in a 1 person place or generally do a flat-share sort of thing?

**fortysixandtwo** · 17-03-2010, 04:36 AM

I say go for it, absolutely.

Make the debt work for you! We're all living in a country with billions of pounds worth of debt.

It's not like you're taking 100k to vegas - it's an investment in your future! A future in which you could reasonably be working for the next 30ish years in the NHS.

If this is really what you want to do then you'll make it happen.

**aspirant doc** · 17-03-2010, 06:52 AM

To the OP, you seem to consistently say how much you will spend while ignoring how much you could earn from income from paid work. If - for whatever reason - you aren't in a position to work, so be it, your figures stand, your mind is set, and we wish you all the best. But I can't help thinking you have not factored in income from employment here. Can you work on a 5 year? How much can you earn on a 5 year?

**goldhawkgonk** · 17-03-2010, 02:04 PM

Woah! I must say I'm suprised by all the 'take it, it's a no-brainer' responses.

Spindoctor has calculated that there is a 35k potential difference between courses. £35k!!! That's a huge amount of money - to take a risk to save £35k is a risk I'd take. It's a huge, huge amount of money when you're earning a wage - the average UK salary is about £24k to give it some perspective.

And regardless of the earning potential during a five year course, you are losing one years GUARANTEED earnings in a well paid, London job pre-course this year. I would have thought that after tax, NI etc, these two things would go some way to mitigate each other.

Just my feelings, but I'm a bit suprised at the cavelier fashion to debt! Or perhaps I'm just being old....

**khaa9666** · 17-03-2010, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by goldhawkgonk

Woah! I must say I'm suprised by all the 'take it, it's a no-brainer' responses.

Spindoctor has calculated that there is a 35k potential difference between courses. £35k!!! That's a huge amount of money - to take a risk to save £35k is a risk I'd take. It's a huge, huge amount of money when you're earning a wage - the average UK salary is about £24k to give it some perspective.

And regardless of the earning potential during a five year course, you are losing one years GUARANTEED earnings in a well paid, London job pre-course this year. I would have thought that after tax, NI etc, these two things would go some way to mitigate each other.

Just my feelings, but I'm a bit suprised at the cavelier fashion to debt! Or perhaps I'm just being old....

No, just being young!! Try working in an unfulfilling profession for a decade, then it will seem like a no brainer!

**dotvicky** · 17-03-2010, 05:58 PM

So, you've worked out there's a sizeable £35k difference between the 2 years. If you work during your 5 year (which you probably wouldn't be able to do on your 4 year), you can mitigate £25k of that taking it to £10k difference. Still a lot of money but worth risking your dream for?

**Chwirkytheappleboy** · 17-03-2010, 08:02 PM

While I'm taking potential earnings into consideration, I'm very reluctant to make projections based on the loose possibility of extra income. My main concerns are:

1.) My current job doesn't lend itself to being part-time or short-term, because of the nature of the work. Therefore I can't stay there and would need to rely on getting other part time work, which leads onto point 2
2.) While I'm happy to do other types of work such as shop work, waitering, bar work etc, it should be noted that in the middle of a recession, ALL work is very hard to come by so there is no guarantee I can actually get a job
3.) I have quite a few friends at King's who have all advised me NOT to rely on any income from paid work during the clinical years, since there is a.) less time to work, and b.) no guarantee of where you will be at any given time. Therefore rather than having 5 years to work, it's actually more like 2. If we're comparing GEP and undergraduate courses, then since the final 3 years are the same for both programmes, the only difference lies in the first two years anyway.

In any case, I think it's dangerous to make assumptions based on "best case scenario" (i.e. being able to consistently earn £5k each year for the full 5 years with no detriment to study, for example) which is not something I want to include in a budget which is supposed to represent a realistic projection of my finances. What happens if I can't find part time work because there are 100 other applicants for each shelf-stacking job in Tesco? What happens if I'm not actually all that bright and need to study every hour God sends me just to keep up? Should I jeopardise my degree to stack some shelves? I think that it would be naive to just jump into the course thinking "oh I'll earn all I need anyway so there won't be any problem".

Of course, it would also be wrong to assume I won't earn any money, and it would be irresponsible of me to try to get through 5 years of University without making any effort to earn anything. So in trying to make a decision, I would factor in what I'd consider a reasonable amount of money to expect. Anything more is a bonus, anything less is an added problem