Why am I putting myself through this?

[Polldoll]

Most of the people I know lead lives that wouldn't be influenced...at all...if there were no dancers. Okay, in the grand scheme of things, not exactly a wide sample, but still...
I'm not sure the world would be all that much different without dancers. Musicians? Probably, but you don't have to go to university and study music to be a talented musician.

If someone could explain what a degree in music/dance could lead to - realistically - other than teaching music/dance, that would be useful.

You would be suprised how much hard work it actually is to become a professional musician, and you do have to go to uni (or more specifically a conservitoire) to become a musician. I know this as I completed a honours degree and postgraduate diploma in performance from the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama. You dont just waken up one day and are a talent musician! You need to learn stuff like technique, repetoire, harmony, theory, history. But it is the hours and hours of individual practice that makes a good and talented musician. (Btw I am talking real music, not pop which is a whole different kettle of fish.)

With a music degree SOME of your career options include:
Professional musician - orchestral, session musician (playing music for film tracks, tv, commercials),
Teacher- yes music teachers are required as music is part of the national curriculum.
Music Therapy - as I mention in my previous post, music can open up a whole world of communication and interaction to groups of people.
Arts Administration - work behind the scenes to organise events, concerts etc
Educational projects - Musicians do outreach programmes to deprived areas, opening up the world of music to those who normally wouldnt get a chance. EG they give a bunch of kids instruments, teach them to play, and form an orchestra or band.. giving them some hobby to keep them off the streets (BBC NEWS | Americas | Venezuela youths transformed by music)

Cant give much info for dance as my background is in music.

[Polldoll]

Yet follows a massive post...

I did say almost!!

I suppose music therapy only works if the music was played by someone with a music degree?

If you want it to be actual music then a qualification in music would be helpful. But feel free to take a recorder in and try screeching out three blind mice or something...

I refer you again to the comment above. Also, films make a lot of money and can afford to pay their composers, as such, if they want to study music it shouldn't be paid for them.



No, I also enjoy arguing on the internet...



Now this one doesn't make any sense....the only band I've ever been could play one song and it was a misfits cover, hardly the stuff of musical genius. I have nothing against music et al. I just don't want to pay for others to study it...

Sorry, I guess we are thinking of different bands. I meant a wind band or an orchestra not a couple of people playing guitars and doing covers. Big difference there!



Perhaps, but only when tuition fees cover all the cost of your education

Do they not need to take out student loans for fees and living costs now adays? In the olden days all degrees were government funded but that changed did it not? Otherwise I wouldnt have all my loan debt from doing my music degree!

Ta

Anytime!!

[Winchester]

Arch_Angel

The subject matter is pretty unimportant - all that tax is producing people who can research, teach, learn independently. At least in theory.

How many science grads actually use all that they learn and further society? I reckon 99.99% (maybe) end up working back on the Asda chicken counter. The Asda back home seems to be staffed almost entirely by scientists.

Stop provoking people - you should be revising the social politics of love or something.

[Kinkerz]

You would be suprised how much hard work it actually is to become a professional musician, and you do have to go to uni (or more specifically a conservitoire) to become a musician. I know this as I completed a honours degree and postgraduate diploma in performance from the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama. You dont just waken up one day and are a talent musician! You need to learn stuff like technique, repetoire, harmony, theory, history. But it is the hours and hours of individual practice that makes a good and talented musician. (Btw I am talking real music, not pop which is a whole different kettle of fish.)

Well pop (I'm chucking indie, R n B, rap, hip hop, dance et al music in with pop here) is the most frequently listened to genre of music, no? So in the majority of music actually listened to, the musicians haven't done a degree in it.
I know you don't just wake up talented. I'm not an idiot. But surely you could become a talented musician purely by practicing in lieu of going to university to study.

The term 'musician' seems to be a bit of a grey one.

With a music degree SOME of your career options include:
Professional musician - orchestral, session musician (playing music for film tracks, tv, commercials),

Do you have to have done a degree in music to do this? Can you not just be an established, talented, degree-less musician?

Teacher- yes music teachers are required as music is part of the national curriculum.

We did music in years 7,8 and 9 - before GCSE - and it was utterly pointless. Didn't do GCSE, but then again, it's not part of the national curriculum at GCSE, so it doesn't really matter.

Music Therapy - as I mention in my previous post, music can open up a whole world of communication and interaction to groups of people.
Arts Administration - work behind the scenes to organise events, concerts etc
Educational projects - Musicians do outreach programmes to deprived areas, opening up the world of music to those who normally wouldnt get a chance. EG they give a bunch of kids instruments, teach them to play, and form an orchestra or band.. giving them some hobby to keep them off the streets (BBC NEWS | Americas | Venezuela youths transformed by music)

Would you need a music degree to do those?

[Arch_Angel]

How many science grads actually use all that they learn and further society?

Every single one that even does a dissertation

Bedtime!

[Polldoll]

You need a degree in music to give you the credentials required to undertake many of the jobs mentioned. You expect your lecturers and school teachers to be qualified to teach you a particular subject, same goes for music! Sorry I dont know much about the English educational system, but music up here is part of the curriculum from 3-14 until children can choose which subjects they are doing.

Sure you could try teaching yourself a classical musical instrument, do what it says in the books, learn the notes but it is not enough to make you a musician! Doing a music degree gives you the whole package, provides expert tuition in your instrument, classes on the history of music, harmony to teach you how music is structured and to encourage you to understand why and what you are playing.
It also gives you many playing and performance opportunities that you wont get outwith the uni!

The whole do you need an actual degree is a particular subject in order to work in it can be applied to anything.
You could read all the medical textbooks you want, memorise how to do all the procedures, buy equipment on the internet, practice procedures on dummys.. is that enough to make you a doctor??
(I seem to recall a documentary about a 13 year old "surgeon" in India who did just that.. he could talk like a medical dictionary and do operations, but he hadnt done a degree..I certainly wouldnt of counted him as a dr or let him treat me!!)

[Kinkerz]

You need a degree in music to give you the credentials required to undertake many of the jobs mentioned. You expect your lecturers and school teachers to be qualified to teach you a particular subject, same goes for music! Sorry I dont know much about the English educational system, but music up here is part of the curriculum from 3-14 until children can choose which subjects they are doing.

I could've taught pre-GCSE music and I know virtually nothing about music. About ten minutes reading before each lesson would probably be sufficient. GCSE and after, however, would require someone who actually knows what they're talking about. GCSE and after isn't part of the core, national curriculum though. People do it through choice.

Sure you could try teaching yourself a classical musical instrument, do what it says in the books, learn the notes but it is not enough to make you a musician!

Definition of a musician: "one who composes, conducts, or performs music, especially instrumental music".
(musician - definition of musician by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.)
Why is it not enough?

Doing a music degree gives you the whole package, provides expert tuition in your instrument, classes on the history of music, harmony to teach you how music is structured and to encourage you to understand why and what you are playing.
It also gives you many playing and performance opportunities that you wont get outwith the uni!

So, ultimately, it just makes you a more qualified musician.

The whole do you need an actual degree is a particular subject in order to work in it can be applied to anything.
You could read all the medical textbooks you want, memorise how to do all the procedures, buy equipment on the internet, practice procedures on dummys.. is that enough to make you a doctor??
(I seem to recall a documentary about a 13 year old "surgeon" in India who did just that.. he could talk like a medical dictionary and do operations, but he hadnt done a degree..I certainly wouldnt of counted him as a dr or let him treat me!!)

Not really. To be a doctor, you need to do a degree in medicine. To be talented with music, i.e. a musician, you don't need to do a degree in music. It's not the same.

[Genevieve]

Most of the people I know lead lives that wouldn't be influenced...at all...if there were no dancers. Okay, in the grand scheme of things, not exactly a wide sample, but still...
I'm not sure the world would be all that much different without dancers. Musicians? Probably, but you don't have to go to university and study music to be a talented musician.

If someone could explain what a degree in music/dance could lead to - realistically - other than teaching music/dance, that would be useful.

Polldoll has successfully explained what a degree in music can lead to. As someone who has danced since the age of 2, I will explain about dance:

1. Importance- Ever been to the Ballet, Theatre, a Carnival or festival? Dance features widely in these areas. It may not seem important to everyone but people have enjoyed going to watch/participate in these for many many years and continue to do so. Dance kept me busy while my friends were out beginning to drink alcohol and it gave me so many skills not to mention ambition, determination and how to be part of a team (I was also a competitive cheerleader- 100% team based).
Maybe the whole world wouldn't be affected if there were no dancers but I know lots of people from many different backgrounds who would.

2. Degree in dance- I had a hard time deciding whether to go down the dance route for my career or do something more academic. I chose my current degree and my cousin and 1 friend are currently doing a dance degree- I've seen the work they have to do, academically and physically. The academic work contains lots of musculoskeletal anatomy and they also learn about injuries etc. Dance and music go hand in hand and I don't think a degree in either should be valued any less- the students on these courses work far harder than someone studying marketing or accountancy.

[Spencer Wells]

What an arse!!

You obviously have strong feelings about this, but less of the ad hominem attacks please; the only thing the do to an argument is make it petty and personal.

Dance and music go hand in hand and I don't think a degree in either should be valued any less- the students on these courses work far harder than someone studying marketing or accountancy.

I'd like to see some evidence of that please.

[yazoo]

I'm sure most people with beyond pea-sized intelligence can work out the basic value of education (on any topic). Perhaps what is lacking these days is the perception of a degree as something that has value. And perhaps this, in turn, relates to the standards within education.

Which do you value more?

A BSc in biology or a BA in music.


Which do you value more?

A BA from Royal Academy of Music or a BSc from the new city university of townsville (uk) which has an entry rate of EE.

There is a reason why many commercial companies use school results to screen graduates in preference to their university degrees.

All degrees are not equal. They are not equally challenging. They do not represent equal educational opportunities. But this inequality is not so much subject related in my mind.