4th year summative OSCE

[mohasanmd]

I'm starting this thread because there's being a lot of noise made by students in regards to the 4th year OSCE. Now, there is a powerpoint presentation on VITAL listing all the stations that the 4th years had in the summatives of 2009. So, I don't think it would be wrong to discuss the content given that it's available to all Liverpool medical students.

First of all, I've heard from all the previous fourth years that the summative is a paper writing exercise which was a shock to them. We got the same thing in our formatives this year. Loads of paperwork. But no death certificate, it might pop up in the Summer.

In the summative of 2009, there were two stations that I think were unfair. Taking a high vaginal swab. There's only a study guide for a Cervical Smear, not a HVS. Also, there was this station where you had to do a post-op assessment. Not many people were quite sure how to approach the examination.

Can they do this? Introduce practical skills that aren't covered in the study guides?

[melon]

Can they do this? Introduce practical skills that aren't covered in the study guides?

Yes they certainly can, and do. It's a horrible exam that is difficult and unfair in parts, but it's just one of the hoops you have to jump through I'm afraid.

The high vaginal swab was purely a paper exercise, and apparently you could have got away with not even performing the procedure and just filling out the sample pot and form. The post-op assessment I think was a way of testing communication skills and your ability to think on your feet and apply your knowledge to unfamiliar situations. I didn't think it was too bad a station.

[mohasanmd]

I think it's a bit unfair that they can do that. I've been looking over the past OSCEs on the Dr.Clarke website and it seems to me that the 2009 one was the hardest OSCE.

I also know that it had the highest number of students resitting it, the GMC weren't too happy about that many students re-sitting one of their final exams. I honestly think it's because faculty changed the marking scheme. Had they kept the old one things would've been much better.

I know that there's a lot of doom and gloom about students having their OSCE on the first two days but I've had my 2nd and 3rd year OSCEs on the second day and it went ok without any resits.

Why don't they release the station list for everyone? Not give us ambiguous ones but real station lists?

[melon]

I think it's a bit unfair that they can do that. I've been looking over the past OSCEs on the Dr.Clarke website and it seems to me that the 2009 one was the hardest OSCE.

I also know that it had the highest number of students resitting it, the GMC weren't too happy about that many students re-sitting one of their final exams. I honestly think it's because faculty changed the marking scheme. Had they kept the old one things would've been much better.

I know that there's a lot of doom and gloom about students having their OSCE on the first two days but I've had my 2nd and 3rd year OSCEs on the second day and it went ok without any resits.

Why don't they release the station list for everyone? Not give us ambiguous ones but real station lists?

I sat the 2009 OSCE and yes, it was horrendous. People were crying outside of it afterwards and we were lining up to complain about it. However, in retrospect, I think this probably happens every year - it's the stress of finals coupled with the general dislike of the OSCE format. I passed the OSCE first time though, so maybe I'm not biased by the stress of resitting a final exam.

They don't release a detailed station list because that would be like releasing the questions for the written papers ahead of time. It kind of defeats the purpose of an exam.

I realise this makes me sound like I'm a fan of the clinical skills department and the OSCE, far from it. I was saying the exact same things as you last year, almost down to the letter. However, from the other side of finals you realise that maybe you were a bit crazy with the stress.

Good luck!

[Chang]

i was on the second day and passed first time. i of course knew exactly what stations there had been on the first day, and if i hadn't i am almost certain i would have failed. this was what was so wrong with last years, i have been on the first day in 3rd year and although you are at a disadvantage compared to people on the other days, if you know your stuff you pass anyway, but there was so much in the 4th yr exam that had the sole purpose of trying to trip you up rather than assess you clinical skills. The death certificate for example. now don't get me wrong, it's an important thing to know how to do, but testing your ability to fill one out for a patient you've never met in under 5mins is a very different skill to testing if you actually know how to fill one out. i also can't see the point of having a formative exam that bares no resemblance to the summative - it's a waste of their time and ours. i have always been a fan of the osce (i stress the OSCE, not the clinical skills department as a whole) but i think they really missed the point last year. they also had some slightly iffy examiners - my venepuncture patient and examiner where having a rather unprofessional chinwag while i was attempting to do that station which doesn't half put you off.

and of course they can;t release a station list, what would be the point in the exam? however they could at least change it a little to make it more fair. you should be competent in all the skills so it shouldn't matter that the stations are different for each group.

[lois482002]

I sat the 2009 OSCE and yes, my main gripes with it was the lack of professionalism of the examiners in the station. That and the fact that nobody can fill in a death certificate accurately in 5 minutes! In my mind, the OSCE should be about performing the skills fully and safely, and the LOCAS should be about thinking on your feet. Not the other way round.

My advice would be to make sure you clarify with the clinical skills staff what they mean when they say things like "I am a passive observer". This to me meant that the person was still marking you - apparently not, even though the examiners in the com skills station say a similar thing and are marking you. I feel I lost valuable time talking through my high vaginal swab and ophthalmoscopy rather than gathering patient details to write in the next station. Plus there's no harm in asking them this information. These problems happen every year with the OSCE - the year above us said they had the same problems, they just didn't complain about it half as much!

They can and most likely will throw in stuff that isn't in the study guides, but that doesn't mean you can't have a stab at it. I'm sure if you've never done a post op review in your life, you could quickly come up with a few important things that need asking. Honestly, there were only three out of the thirty stations that were not in the manual, the vast majority of it you know! The only thing you can do now is learn the stuff in the manuals as thoroughly as possible, then focus on the things that you know are very likely e.g. death certification, and worry about the random stations which you couldn't possibly guess when they come up in the osce - when they do, know that you have to improvise as best you can.

[mohasanmd]

thanks for the replies everyone. That clarified a lot of things.

The Passive observer bit threw me off in the 3rd year OSCE as well. I should've noticed it though seeing as the examiner was holding a novel in her hands rather than paying attention to me. We did complain about that unprofessional behaviour.

If they're going to bring up stations that aren't in the study guide then I guess I'll just have to improvise as you said. I'm honestly expecting anything to pop out in OSCE. It's becoming unpredictable each year. In our formative one we had a wound cleaning station. Yes, something that we were given a 10 minute tutorial on in first year.

There have been talks going around that for the 4th year summatives you're allocated to the OSCE day depending on which Trust you've been allocated to for the year. Is that true?

[melon]

thanks for the replies everyone. That clarified a lot of things.

The Passive observer bit threw me off in the 3rd year OSCE as well. I should've noticed it though seeing as the examiner was holding a novel in her hands rather than paying attention to me. We did complain about that unprofessional behaviour.

If they're going to bring up stations that aren't in the study guide then I guess I'll just have to improvise as you said. I'm honestly expecting anything to pop out in OSCE. It's becoming unpredictable each year. In our formative one we had a wound cleaning station. Yes, something that we were given a 10 minute tutorial on in first year.

There have been talks going around that for the 4th year summatives you're allocated to the OSCE day depending on which Trust you've been allocated to for the year. Is that true?

I think that sounds reasonable - I was at Aintree and we all had ours over the last two days.

I don't like how unpredicatable they are making the OSCEs now. I'm glad I'm done with it all. Good luck with it, it will all be over soon!

[mohasanmd]

I know it'll be over. I'm just hoping it'll end well.
I'm currently plowing through all the onexamination questions. Believe it or not, they had the same post op scenario in one of their questions and the question asked you how to manage him!

After you answered the question they, per usual, they give you a couple of paragraphs explaining everything you need to know.

Thank you onexamination Gods, ye truly are great.

Disclaimer: I think onexamination is excellent for everything except PPD and PP. For the former use the GMC website and the latter use the revision lectures by MJP, that is all.

[mohasanmd]

We got our Formative OSCE feedback.

About 200 students if not more have failed the formative OSCE.

That does not look good!

I don't know whether I passed or failed because I've only been given a breakdown of the marks but not the overall result.