Summatives

**melon** · 27-06-2009, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by bfcfan

I went to see them after failing the osce and was told i failed proffesional attitudes and behaviour.... because I was too big.... how silly is that!!! so come on guys, how might I fix that apart from having my legs semi amputated.... advice welcome.... lol...

This is absolutely discrimination and I would raise this attitude they showed you with somebody important like David Taylor. I can't quite believe they said that to you that's ridiculous.

I wouldn't take this as lightly as you have, they have breached your Human Rights.

If you can remember the name of the member of staff that said it to you (if not just describe them), I would definitely type up a e-mail to one the big dogs in the medical school with a formal complaint.

**melon** · 27-06-2009, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by billy_bremner

The list we are given is quite specific obv. it still just says neuro and gives no further clue but I guess just gotta learn all of them. so just to check you do not need to know any more than the stuff in clinical skills guides then. sorry to be a pain aswell but any idea what sort of ethics stuff commonly appears year after year? and do your ethical arguments have to be things which people have previously proposed or can u literally just come up with your own suggestions on the spot cos im finding revising for that a nightmare.

What I always do with ethics is when responding to a question, rather than just saying "It is in the patient's best interest" I would say "Beneficence - The action would be in the patient's best interests". I always feel more comfortable about getting the marks if I state the ethical principle or hypothesis that I'm using to make a point.

**bfcfan** · 27-06-2009, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by melon

This is absolutely discrimination and I would raise this attitude they showed you with somebody important like David Taylor. I can't quite believe they said that to you that's ridiculous.

I wouldn't take this as lightly as you have, they have breached your Human Rights.

If you can remember the name of the member of staff that said it to you (if not just describe them), I would definitely type up a e-mail to one the big dogs in the medical school with a formal complaint.

LOL... it was more of a suggestion in fairness of why it might be that I seem to fail osces on the professional attitudes and behaviour, however, I still think its going to be hard to correct this for the benefit of examiners, it might not even be that in reality, professional attitude and behaviour is a strange one anyway to be honest, very subjective, and I think it would be far far better examined in a clinical setting on a ward, i.e. have the person who knows you best on the ward grade you on proffessional behaviour, simply because under the strain of osces, people do some funny things. I can honestly say that I have never once seen anyone trying to do an examination in 5 mins and being reduced to tears because they cant within a ward setting... that being said, I have been near it once or twice with the odd consultant... lol....

**happyfacedani** · 27-06-2009, 01:42 PM

I failed professional attitude and behaviour on the formative and when I asked for feedback I got a list of guff about how it could be confidence etc, but they didn't seem to have an actual reason. I did reach the actual pass mark but failed a few things - giving the wrong drug in injections for starters (first station - wasn't focussed yet - will learn from that!) and I think I forgot to check identity and introduce myself in the BP station. Oops. Will learn from it!

Also good luck if you go to DT with a complaint. I got hauled in yest for logging 29/30 cases on spider (I'd done 30, but spider had amazingly yet unsurprisingly deleted one). They had no idea why I was there, no idea how many cases to log, DT sat there checking in for a flight and MJP was playing with her fountain pen. I sat there for a good 20 mins before they bothered to deal with why I was there and then told me I could progress to exams because I 'have a kind face'. Then told me I should probably be revising given exams are Monday. ARGH.

I'm not so worried about papers 2 (critical appraisal and ethics) or 3 (core cases) cos the same stuff seems to come up every time, but paper 1 is so random! Somehow managed to pass them all at formatives...the pass marks were 54, 50 and 51 in that order and I got 66,70 and 78. So my biggest worry based on that is paper 1 though I have no idea where to start! Is it best to go over things like calcium metabolism, clotting cascade, ossification, alcohol metabolism and things like that? Any ideas would be welcome!

**FruitcakeLiz** · 27-06-2009, 02:28 PM

Hey dani i'm in an osce stress despite being in last day so sorry for the quick reply but yeah that's the kind of stuff best to revise for paper 1. add to that inflammation, role of different vitamins etc, pathophys of atherosclerosis etc.
good luck monday and tues xx

p.s. that's so typical about your "meeting"... what a load of...

**melon** · 27-06-2009, 03:27 PM

Might be worth having a quick skim over things like hyper and hypocalcaemia, hyperkalaemia, and hyponatraemia as they came up in my second year Paper 1 exams. The vitamins question came up for me as well like Liz said.

I'm wandering around the house shouting CHAPERONE every 10 minutes today because I always bloody forget in the OSCE. In the formative I was accused by the examiner of committing battery on the rectal model because I hadn't asked for a chaperone. He was an odd old chap. I told him that I assumed he would by my chaperone but I don't think he liked me very much. Ah well.

**mullanyman7** · 27-06-2009, 03:41 PM

hehe battery on the rectal model! u wil b fine for ur osce - all the stations were u need a chaperone - rnt 'examined' there student sitting in there reading books! i stopped talking after 30 seconds lol - good luck

**transatlanticrachael** · 27-06-2009, 09:31 PM

wow things are heating up on here!!!

**Pannini** · 29-06-2009, 05:47 PM

I'm doing my OSCE finals AGAIN tomorrow, I've actually given up on preparing as it is a complete waste of time anyway. I passed the OSCE last year but my answers from a computer station were not included in my marks so they failed me and made me resit the whole year (including the LOCAS exam). There were so many problems in the OSCE last year including examiners telling students (including myself) that we had been "perfect" but then on the feedback we had zero for that station. After I complained about this I was told it's not the end of the world! Did the resit and had them ignore my answers on the computer station therefore making me fail. They also failed me on professionalism but the feedback for this was similar to other peoples but with the added - possibly your accent? (I am scouse and go to LIVERPOOL medical school). I got the results on my birthday and had to go to progress to beg to stay in medical school and have been treated like an absolute leper ever since. I have asked for help in clin skills but they have refused to let me come in and have practice. I have spoken to may of the powers that be about this and they have told me to eat humble pie and get on with it. I cannot quite believe that they have improved the OSCES after the uproar of last year.
What is this problem with examiners as well? Why are there students of younger years pretending to examine us but are not actually marking the skills?? I've heard it is because of funds but the amount of fees we pay surely means we are entitled to examiners? It's not like they spend a fortune on teaching us anything????!!!!
Absolute JOKE! Roll on the joys of tomorrow

**Vixter** · 29-06-2009, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Pannini

I'm doing my OSCE finals AGAIN tomorrow, I've actually given up on preparing as it is a complete waste of time anyway. I passed the OSCE last year but my answers from a computer station were not included in my marks so they failed me and made me resit the whole year (including the LOCAS exam). There were so many problems in the OSCE last year including examiners telling students (including myself) that we had been "perfect" but then on the feedback we had zero for that station. After I complained about this I was told it's not the end of the world! Did the resit and had them ignore my answers on the computer station therefore making me fail. They also failed me on professionalism but the feedback for this was similar to other peoples but with the added - possibly your accent? (I am scouse and go to LIVERPOOL medical school). I got the results on my birthday and had to go to progress to beg to stay in medical school and have been treated like an absolute leper ever since. I have asked for help in clin skills but they have refused to let me come in and have practice. I have spoken to may of the powers that be about this and they have told me to eat humble pie and get on with it. I cannot quite believe that they have improved the OSCES after the uproar of last year.
What is this problem with examiners as well? Why are there students of younger years pretending to examine us but are not actually marking the skills?? I've heard it is because of funds but the amount of fees we pay surely means we are entitled to examiners? It's not like they spend a fortune on teaching us anything????!!!!
Absolute JOKE! Roll on the joys of tomorrow

Hello, I think I know who you are

Just wanted to say good luck for tomorrow. You will be fine im sure - ive got everything crossed for you that the clin skill sstaff dont **** up so royally this time. xxx