Helped i missed my grades - What now?

**gimperial99** · 24-11-2007, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Touche

I have a friend who qualified from QMUL 2 years ago... he's currently an anatomy demonstrator at GKT. So... your beloved Prof Ellis seemed to think he was good enough to teach anatomy at GKT even if you think he must inherently be clueless. Then again your rant proves you're a bit of an idiot.

Its sad that you all have to descend into personal insults. Anyway, I am not talking about individual doctors, of course there are outstanding candidates from all universities. The basic principle that some courses are better than others seems pretty obvious to me. Do you honestly believe that all courses are the same in quality?

**gimperial99** · 24-11-2007, 09:00 PM

So he is anatomy demonstrating at GKT, which is a full time job. I take it he doesn't have a training number, unlike some "idiots" who do?

**Gizmo says -** · 24-11-2007, 09:01 PM

Originally Posted by gimperial99

Its sad that you all have to descend into personal insults.

er, no, dude. he just said you insulted yourself.

**Dr Noodle** · 24-11-2007, 09:24 PM

Gimperial I apologise again for insulting you. Now has anyone heard about these academies that David Cameron is suggesting should be set up? Excuse my ignorance but what is an 'academy'?

**Touche** · 24-11-2007, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by gimperial99

So he is anatomy demonstrating at GKT, which is a full time job. I take it he doesn't have a training number, unlike some "idiots" who do?

If you had some insight into the world of postgraduate medicine you would know that for some competitive specialities there are some things that are expected before even considering a training number. Anatomy demonstrating for competitive surgical jobs is one of them. Obtaining a higher degree is almost a prerequisite for a cardiology number, that does not mean people going down these routes are inadequate, it just means they have insight into what is realistically required. Going down the 'he must be crap because he's not got a training number' shows a serious lack of insight into medical career progression. Would be interesting to have you read back what you've written here in a year or two...

**gimperial99** · 24-11-2007, 09:44 PM

Originally Posted by Touche

If you had some insight into the world of postgraduate medicine you would know that for some competitive specialities there are some things that are expected before even considering a training number. Anatomy demonstrating for competitive surgical jobs is one of them. Obtaining a higher degree is almost a prerequisite for a cardiology number, that does not mean people going down these routes are inadequate, it just means they have insight into what is realistically required. Going down the 'he must be crap because he's not got a training number' shows a serious lack of insight into medical career progression. Would be interesting to have you read back what you've written here in a year or two...

As I have a national training number is one of those competitive surgical jobs, I might have a bit of insight. Anyway, with MMC the role of anatomy demonstrating is still being debated. I know at some places they have got so desperate for demonstrators they are employing medical students from higher years to demonstrate. Anyway, I don't want to debate his merits, but just be careful who you call an idiot.

Anyway perhaps you will answer my question regarding equality of courses?

Gimperial I apologise again for insulting you. Now has anyone heard about these academies that David Cameron is suggesting should be set up? Excuse my ignorance but what is an 'academy'?

Thanks noodle. I haven't studied Cameron's proposals so cannot comment at the moment. However, I do think that we should accept that there are people who are not academically minded and rather than forcing them to stay on in school until 18, so socialists can feel good about themselves, we should be looking at giving them training they need to do jobs that we help them and the economy.

**Dr Noodle** · 24-11-2007, 10:21 PM

Ye I have to agree with you there. I have a quite a few friends who either dropped out of school when they were sixteen or stuck it until they did their leaving cert because their parents made them and they are lost now, stuck in tedious jobs such as telemarketing and not sure what they are doing with themselves. Our career guidance counsellor, though a very, very nice person, wasn't very good.

**Touche** · 25-11-2007, 01:14 AM

Originally Posted by gimperial99

As I have a national training number is one of those competitive surgical jobs, I might have a bit of insight. Anyway, with MMC the role of anatomy demonstrating is still being debated. I know at some places they have got so desperate for demonstrators they are employing medical students from higher years to demonstrate. Anyway, I don't want to debate his merits, but just be careful who you call an idiot.

Anyway perhaps you will answer my question regarding equality of courses?

T&O is not quite cardiothoracics or plastics

(By that I mean I know 3 friends who have T&O ST1 jobs this year straight from F2. You and I know the F2->ST1 general surgery guys are not going to fair too well when it comes to competition for plastics/cardiothoracics numbers at ST3 without something outstanding.)

Of course all courses are not the same in content. Lectures, lecturers, equipment and emphasis are all different from course to course... but I do believe medical graduates come out roughly equal, and that you cannot guess how a colleague will perform based on their med school choice (or even how well they performed at med school). I honestly believe in order to progress it does not matter where you studied. It is what you do once qualified that really matters.

**gimperial99** · 25-11-2007, 04:57 AM

(By that I mean I know 3 friends who have T&O ST1 jobs this year straight from F2. You and I know the F2->ST1 general surgery guys are not going to fair too well when it comes to competition for plastics/cardiothoracics numbers at ST3 without something outstanding.)

Probably not, because if you have a general surgery number that means you are going to be doing general surgery. I am a bit lost by that point. As it stands those people who got ST1 plastics should progress to ST3 if they pass their competencies.

As an aside, if you look at the future prospects for surgeons, the only specialities that are really "future proof" are orthopaedics and lower GI surgery. Infact if anyone went to the MMC talk in London with that Ross bloke from Crimewatch, that was the view of one of the Professors there. The other surgical areas are screwed.

As for competitiveness of disciplines. Surgery overall was the most competitive by far. T and O for some reason this year was one of the most competitive surgical specialities. And urology which used to be up there couldn't even fill their places.

Of course all courses are not the same in content. Lectures, lecturers, equipment and emphasis are all different from course to course... but I do believe medical graduates come out roughly equal, and that you cannot guess how a colleague will perform based on their med school choice (or even how well they performed at med school). I honestly believe in order to progress it does not matter where you studied. It is what you do once qualified that really matters.

I think you are right to a certain extent. But with you potentially having to apply for ST1 after a year and a half out of medical school, you will have to have done quite a lot at med school. I know med students who already have 3 or 4 first name papers published. If you go to a school with an emphasis on research it will help. Speaking to graduates from Georges, they themselves have admitted to me they felt their course did not prepare them as well as students from Kings. It would be nice if people came out roughly equal, which is a very strong arguement for a standard finals exam.

**Gizmo says -** · 25-11-2007, 05:14 AM

or is the problem that you went looking for a difference when you spoke to georgies medics?
in reality there wasnt any difference, but your interpretation of wat thery said is based on the prejudices you already 'ave, instead of being an independent and accurate judgement?
becos i've never come across a georgie who has said that, and i spent two years alongside em (in spades) when i was all for asking about medical careers.