Trainee doctor from LEEDS jumped to his death after failing exams--omg when ws ths??

[PureMedic]

Originally Posted by Muffin2

yeah seen that. i think it probably wasn't so much bullying but a reality check. they've probably said something like "get your act together or you'll end up having to drop out" kind of shock tactics to get him to work harder.
still very sad though.

I think it was you who asked quite a while ago (I cannot find your comment alas) whether there is a real danger of getting 'thrown out' at any point of being an undergraduate. You were in the second year at Leeds I believe.

In answer, I'll convey what I know. Bear in mind that this took place in the 1980s - to be fair to the current administration. First, my lab partner was dismissed (a pretty young lady too) after failing anatomy and physiology. She transferred to do chemistry. Then *I was dismissed after my intercalated year (B.Sc.(Hons.) pharmacology plus my third medical year and after doing paediatrics twice, at the end of my fourth year. I also have it from an impeccable source that a young chap was dismissed for failing surgery (twice), but who had passed medicine. I can imagine and empathise with the psychological 'shock' that he must have gone through. I was lucky in that I could speak two languages (fluently), though I didn't know the medical terms for my second language. I had to learn them VERY quickly indeed! - in the other EA country. I passed all, including paediatrics and only now have I been allowed by the GMC to take a history and examination, after graduating abroad and doing 13 months of a pre-registration year, then finally being granted full registration abroad. So, from 1984 to 1994 I was trying to battle with a problem, then upon returning to the UK, certain rules prevented me from working. Thus I ended up 14 years 'behind'. Only now, at age 47 am I able to meet patients and revise. I have to write to my postgraduate dean for details of what to do next. Although still suspended, I am allowed to use the title of Dr in the capacity of a medical student, as, after being away from medicine for 15 years, the GMC thinks I have forgotten everything, whereas my medical knowledge is stored in my extra-long-term memory and I recall things very quickly now. I only ever envisaged myself as a doctor and, at last, I can return to medicine if I prove my abilities. So it has taken from 1993 (end of August) to now for me to be able to see patients! Can anyone 'beat' that length of time to return to medicine through the 'backdoor'? Was it worth it? I say yes! I learned all kinds of things other doctors would never learn through mainstream education. My empathy has increased dramatically, and, in particular, empathy for other medical students and junior doctors is also very high.

I would welcome replies to this post - genuine thoughts only please. E.g. What would you do if, almost at the end of your medical training you were thrown out?

PureMedic - God bless you all

[PureMedic]

Originally Posted by idiopath

there is plenty of support at leeds these days...but if you fail an exam, fail the resit, fail the year again, fail that resit - you're clearly not competent.

leeds has a duty to your potential future patients...

Oh, I agree, but I was not offered the opportunity to re-sit the year again. My 'career' was stopped at failing paeds. twice. Even my Professor of paeds at St. James's this time, expected me to pass, as did all other tutors. That's a bit drastic IMO, or perhaps you see it another way.

Best wishes (who is arguing? Not *I)

PureMedic

[PureMedic]

Originally Posted by idiopath

i wouldn't worry too much - most people don't fail and leeds won't make any rash decisions about you! if you do fail, you will be given ample chance to resit - most individuals would have to fail the same exam 4 times to run out of luck.

Well, this may be so in 2008, but not so in 1984 or 1985. Two strikes at paeds & I was out.

Best wishes

PureMedic

[tgunn]

Ok chaps and chapesses, to clarify:

1. The deceased student never failed his final exam contrary to media reports
2. The coroner and police confirmed no family pressure was involved. Medicine was his own choice, and own choice alone. Some parents are pushy, his weren't otherwise they could simply accept it. His friends qualified, noone is accusing them of being pressured especially those that knew him personally :0
3. There was no history of mental illness and the coroner confirms his personal life was fine.

Here is the real reason he jumped:

1. He did not receive a 2nd formal warning as per the unsatisafactory students procedure
2. He was read a draft letter that was not signed off by the progress committee
3. The minutes at the inquest state he failed 4 out of 5 placements (this is simply not true)
4. The coroner threw out bullying but only on a technicality.
5. His last 2 consultants were particularly incompetent, one could not even spell his name. File to prove.
6. The 'My stress' document that students complete is being denied existence.
7. He was not given an appeal or counselling.
8. Attendance and sicknote submission was not monitored correctly.

That is just the tip of the iceberg.

Not all students are wrong, unless this is what people are taught to believe.

Any questions, feel free to ask, you are of course welcome to sign the petition calling for a public inquiry. The deceased student could have been anyone of us under the right circumstances.

The truth.
Leeds Medical Student (website)

[yeliab_cram]

Originally Posted by tgunn

1. The deceased student never failed his final exam contrary to media reports

1. He did not receive a 2nd formal warning as per the unsatisafactory students procedure

5. His last 2 consultants were particularly incompetent, one could not even spell his name. File to prove.

6. The 'My stress' document that students complete is being denied existence.

do you have any evidence of these points?

spelling someone's name incorrectly is not a sign of gross incompetence

what "my stress" document?

????????????

[tgunn]

Originally Posted by yeliab_cram

do you have any evidence of these points?

spelling someone's name incorrectly is not a sign of gross incompetence

what "my stress" document?

????????????

"do you have any evidence of these points?"

Does a freedom of information file consisting 250+ pages count along with publicly available court transcripts? In other words, yes, of course. This is a serious legal matter involving the death of someone who jumped to their death.

"spelling someone's name incorrectly is not a sign of gross incompetence"

Of course it isn't, but most people spelling his name wrongly in reports should start to ring a bell. So you would prefer evidence of faulty monitoring and serious gross clinical negligence and educational negligence instead? Needless to say, it goes downhill from there with people forgetting the year before's pass grades are not fail grades, and not following official protocol on the charter for arriving at decisions, and such like. You should have attended the inquest, after all, it was a public forum, then your eyes and ears could not deny you, fortunately, the transcripts are publicly available You just do not have inside knowledge of the event which is why you cannot possibly believe it was not the student at fault.

"what "my stress" document?"

You may never have heard of it or be famililar with it but it actually details a students clinical stress during the course. Other students have received it in a timetabled session even if it has been phased out since.

Next, you will be denying what are 'interesting' articles from the BMJ I am sure, and possibly believe the world is still flat:

Ethnic stereotypes and the underachievement of UK medical students from ethnic minorities: qualitative study -- Woolf et al. 337 (181): a1220 -- BMJ

[yeliab_cram]

I really dont know what it is you are trying to prove...

The event was a tragedy. but that's the end of it. I really dont think there is a need to find someone to blame. To make out that the university is institutionally racist or went out of its way to drive this particular student to commit suicide. To drag good professionals through the courts.

I went to the same medical school and was in the year below Amir. Leeds is a well run and supportive medical school. It is clear from the grade transcrips on your website that Amir was coping academically but failed to show the necessary inititive on some clinical placements with numerous reports of poor attitute and attendence. These professional qualities are just as important as exam results and are necessary to pass the final year.

I have said it before and i will say it again. I really dont think there is enough pressure exerted by the medical school itself to make someone jump off it.

It was a tragic.

Lets hope it never happens again.

But lets move on, eh.

[tgunn]

"The event was a tragedy. but that's the end of it. I really dont think there is a need to find someone to blame."

Agreed it is a tragedy, but one which should not have happened. If a patient dies unnaturally, you will still say there is no blame.

"To make out that the university is institutionally racist or went out of its way to drive this particular student to commit suicide. To drag good professionals through the courts."

I never suggested institutional racism, the BMJ article did. And good professionals do not go to court, bad ones do. It is the law that decides, not me or you.

"I went to the same medical school and was in the year below Amir. Leeds is a well run and supportive medical school."

You don't seriously believe that this kind of thing happens to every student? It is an isolated incident, lessons must be learnt.

"It is clear from the grade transcrips on your website that Amir was coping academically but failed to show the necessary inititive on some clinical placements with numerous reports of poor attitute and attendence."

That's what it says, what about patient diaries proving attendance and consultant's internal Emails? But don't worry about the evidence, it is the job of the GMC to decide not me or you.

"These professional qualities are just as important as exam results and are necessary to pass the final year."

No doubt, but if a 'professional' makes glaring mistakes, then?

"I have said it before and i will say it again. I really dont think there is enough pressure exerted by the medical school itself to make someone jump off it."

If they were lead to believe they failed, they would jump in this circumstance.

"Lets hope it never happens again."

Unless lessons are learnt, it will happen again. Think about it.

[brandy]

This is a very upsetting story!!! My deepest empathy goes out to this boy's family. Even though I do not know this guy, I could imagine how gutted he must have felt failing his finals! But saying that noone should kill himself/herself due to failure!

Hearing such a story does it make you reflect and think hard whether medicine is really for you?
If you were in that guy's situation what would you have done?

I don't know why I am feeling this sad about this story!

[Gizmo says -]

i fink this is going a step too far, maccas.