Leeds Medical School

agneishd · 28-05-2008, 04:05 PM

*resists making organ joke*

plus sim, you could stick it in the garden...

kizdxb · 13-08-2008, 09:49 PM

Hey Singh
I have a shiekh mate and although he isn't very relgious i.e living in dubai, all meat is halal, so he said sheikhs aren't meant eat halal, but I'm with him in KFC every other day. Also he smokes, drinks and has taken drugs.
Right... I'm not here to condemn my friend or anything., but I'm saying even though he is like this, he still keeps to the tradition of not cutting his hair and turban.
All i'm really asking is; Are you from a different shiekh sect, or have you just drifted away from that because: your even less religious than him or you feel it is better to be able to cope in todays society?

I would never of thougth this would be one of my first posts back on NMM after getting rejected last year...but I do seem to remember you, didn't have a personal picture before and all, plus you got rid of your signature as you saw it as too self-grandising.

agneishd · 13-08-2008, 10:56 PM

he's just areligious

Arch_Angel · 13-08-2008, 11:36 PM

Are you kidding? He's clearly a fundi-mentalist

Anyway, Halal meat should be illegal

Singh.Simran · 14-08-2008, 01:13 AM

Sheikh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sikh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

i think that will answer your questions

kizdxb · 14-08-2008, 11:00 AM

arch-angel why would you say that?

unless your a strict vegetarian, i don't think that comment is very well justified.
I'd rather have the animal die instantly, than have it shocked and take more than a few seconds to die.
I'm not an expert on animal behaviour, but I'm slighty more well informed about humans and I'm sure i would like to die without feeling horrendous amount of pain for 'enough' time.

Singh.Simran · 14-08-2008, 11:24 AM

As far as i know halal is aimed at a "clean" death religiously speaking, which may or may not involve the slitting of a throat and slow bleeding out...

Wheras modern slaughterhouse practices, while still not endorsed by veggie old me, are at least intended to be quick and painless.

kizdxb · 14-08-2008, 11:29 AM

well halal slaughter practices are clean,fast and painless.
Until arch angel replies, i think we can put this discussion to rest, and say both are adequate ways (not for you tho sim), but thats ur stance.

Singh.Simran · 14-08-2008, 11:33 AM

I'm going to have to disagree, you can't just state things and hence they are true - the discussion from my end isn't exactly sorted, nor is hala "clean, fast, and painless".

The animal must exsanguinate before death, and the only thing impairing consciousness is blood flow to the brain. Given it is postulated that in cases of guillotining the brain remains conscious for some considerable time, i would imagine that animals (which would in halal have more blood supply than a complete severing) also do...

In comparison, a captive bolt gun is not infallible but at least when it works near instant loss of consciousness should ensue.

kizdxb · 14-08-2008, 11:49 AM

I remember having this debate when i was in year 10, and some of my points are coming back to me.

I dont know when this was but german scientists did the following
They attached EEG and ECG to the animal, and undewent the two halal and western method.

On the halal practice, the eeg/ecg showed very little change 3 seconds after the knife slit the throat, and after 6 the readings where zero.
For stunning, the first 3 seconds showed increased activity showing pain was felt, but also after 6 seconds the readings where zero.
Therefore to some extent, the animal survives the slaughtering for the same amount of time, but for halal techniques feels very little or no pain during it.

28-05-2008, 04:05 PM	#201 (permalink)
agneishd Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New Eltham, London Posts: 1,464	resists making organ joke plus sim, you could stick it in the garden... __________________ Imperial Medic 2008 AAAAabc not long now...

13-08-2008, 10:56 PM	#203 (permalink)
agneishd Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: New Eltham, London Posts: 1,464	he's just areligious __________________ Imperial Medic 2008 AAAAabc not long now...

13-08-2008, 11:36 PM	#204 (permalink)
Arch_Angel Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,109	Are you kidding? He's clearly a fundi-mentalist Anyway, Halal meat should be illegal __________________ Swansea GEP 2008 Genetics BSc - 2008 Entry Medicine [Touched by His noodly appendage]

14-08-2008, 01:13 AM	#205 (permalink)
Singh.Simran Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bromley, London. Posts: 1,151	Sheikh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Sikh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia i think that will answer your questions __________________ Read it and learn http://www.badscience.net/

14-08-2008, 11:24 AM	#207 (permalink)
Singh.Simran Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bromley, London. Posts: 1,151	As far as i know halal is aimed at a "clean" death religiously speaking, which may or may not involve the slitting of a throat and slow bleeding out... Wheras modern slaughterhouse practices, while still not endorsed by veggie old me, are at least intended to be quick and painless. __________________ Read it and learn http://www.badscience.net/

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13-08-2008, 09:49 PM	#202 (permalink)
kizdxb Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dubai Posts: 213	Hey Singh I have a shiekh mate and although he isn't very relgious i.e living in dubai, all meat is halal, so he said sheikhs aren't meant eat halal, but I'm with him in KFC every other day. Also he smokes, drinks and has taken drugs. Right... I'm not here to condemn my friend or anything., but I'm saying even though he is like this, he still keeps to the tradition of not cutting his hair and turban. All i'm really asking is; Are you from a different shiekh sect, or have you just drifted away from that because: your even less religious than him or you feel it is better to be able to cope in todays society? I would never of thougth this would be one of my first posts back on NMM after getting rejected last year...but I do seem to remember you, didn't have a personal picture before and all, plus you got rid of your signature as you saw it as too self-grandising.

14-08-2008, 11:00 AM	#206 (permalink)
kizdxb Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dubai Posts: 213	arch-angel why would you say that? unless your a strict vegetarian, i don't think that comment is very well justified. I'd rather have the animal die instantly, than have it shocked and take more than a few seconds to die. I'm not an expert on animal behaviour, but I'm slighty more well informed about humans and I'm sure i would like to die without feeling horrendous amount of pain for 'enough' time.

14-08-2008, 11:29 AM	#208 (permalink)
kizdxb Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dubai Posts: 213	well halal slaughter practices are clean,fast and painless. Until arch angel replies, i think we can put this discussion to rest, and say both are adequate ways (not for you tho sim), but thats ur stance.

14-08-2008, 11:33 AM	#209 (permalink)
Singh.Simran Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bromley, London. Posts: 1,151	I'm going to have to disagree, you can't just state things and hence they are true - the discussion from my end isn't exactly sorted, nor is hala "clean, fast, and painless". The animal must exsanguinate before death, and the only thing impairing consciousness is blood flow to the brain. Given it is postulated that in cases of guillotining the brain remains conscious for some considerable time, i would imagine that animals (which would in halal have more blood supply than a complete severing) also do... In comparison, a captive bolt gun is not infallible but at least when it works near instant loss of consciousness should ensue. __________________ Read it and learn http://www.badscience.net/

14-08-2008, 11:49 AM	#210 (permalink)
kizdxb Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Dubai Posts: 213	I remember having this debate when i was in year 10, and some of my points are coming back to me. I dont know when this was but german scientists did the following They attached EEG and ECG to the animal, and undewent the two halal and western method. On the halal practice, the eeg/ecg showed very little change 3 seconds after the knife slit the throat, and after 6 the readings where zero. For stunning, the first 3 seconds showed increased activity showing pain was felt, but also after 6 seconds the readings where zero. Therefore to some extent, the animal survives the slaughtering for the same amount of time, but for halal techniques feels very little or no pain during it.