A few words about Keele Medical school

[greengiant]

I am posting this as a clinical student at keele medical school & would like to say a few things about the good & bad points of Keele which will hopefully be useful for those who apply.

Firstly, I am enjoying my clinical experience at the hospital. The teaching by the consultants has been excellent. The patients here are always friendly. There is a lot to see and do as a medial student in the hospital.

However the course itself is very disorganised. Although every medical school I’m sure has problems, the problems we have faced do seem to be on a different level though. Keele administration seems to struggle with increasing student numbers, leading them to withdraw aspects of the course that they advertised. They often make last minute changes to the course which students are not forewarned about. At the moment the 4th year students still do not know their elective dates, which could be as early as the beginning of august- just over 9 months away to plan an elective! There are also not enough GP placements for some of the clinical years to have the once a week GP placement that they should be having as part of the course. Worst of all, all 4th years were only recently told that they would not be getting free accommodation in the 5th year- less than a year before their 5th year started. This is causing a lot of problems for many people who have factored free accommodation into their budget and for whom the cancellation at such short notice is having a lot of financial problems. There are also problems with our validated MBChB (which is talked about on a different thread I think).

We are generally told about vital changes to the course at the last possible minute- via email rather than a group meeting. Although some staff are helpful, many are rude and dismissive of the complaints & queries of anxious medical students, even telling us to stop ‘hassling’ them. No deadlines for which we will be told information is given. Students have been so unhappy with Keele’s running of the course that they have contacted the BMA and GMC.

As a student here I would strongly advise against accepting an offer or applying to Keele. Not because of the hospital, but because of the way the course is run and organised, which is causing a lot of upset & hassle to a lot of students. From experience, I would be doubtful about the promises made in the prospectus, especially ones made about future years, as they may not apply to you when you get there. As with us, these promises could be cancelled at the last minute. Many of the reasons for the negative changes made are that student numbers are increasing. However the 4th & 5th years have just under 90 students, and Keele plans to take on 120 students in 2008. I am not sure how they will be able to increase numbers by a third when they are struggling with current numbers.

Basically although the hospital experience is good, I feel like I am struggling to make the most of it, and am having to constantly battle with the lack of communication & poorly thought through changes made. Thanks to the hospital & teaching staff, I feel that I am learning the skills I will need as a doctor, but the attitude & changes made by the dean & admin staff have made my time here so far a pretty negative experience. I know that I am not alone in feeling like this.

This is just my (long & rambling) opinion. Other students at Keele can obviously contribute theirs, which may or may not contradict these. I just think that prospective students need to know these things so they can make an informed decision about where to apply. I hope it helps.

[thinkerbelle]

bear in mind though first years are on a different course now so in three years, 4th yr might be better organised.....

[crog80]

A rather well pent-up venting there. Fair play.

I feel that a lot of your arguements against Keele are based on the admin side of things. You knew when you applied to Keele that it was a new medical school. You knew that it would be a learning curve for everyone involved. That things would be rocky at times, and hard in places. And, in my circumstances if it had not have been for Keele being a newer medical school, I would not have got in.

Even with a maximum of 120 medical students per year, Keele is still one of the smallest undergraduate medical schools in the country. My friend at a London university has so many people in his year they can't all fit into their medical schools lecture theatre.

By the sounds of it, you are a 3rd year? We have spent 2 years with our heads in books, getting distracted and irritated by the growing pains of the medical school. At times I wish I would have gone elsewhere, but I doubted it would be any different at "older" medical schools.

I think telling people not to apply to Keele, on your experiences is very short sighted. Keele now have a new course, which they have spent a long time developing. Everyone above the first year is on a Manchester course, so if anything, this thread should be on the Manchester forum!

I personally love the Keele campus, and the last two years since I have been at medical school have been the best of my life. Each to their own I guess.

[Gizmo says -]

almost any argument of almost every med stoodent i ave known against every med skool i know is directed at the admin side of fings.

[tidyliwink07]

i think that above is a very bitter student talking very negatively about keele Medical School that has given them so much. I'm also a fourth year medical student at keele, and although recently there has been a couple of issues with accomodation for current fourth years this is a widespread problem effecting many medical schools all over the country and the backlash against keele staff, whether against the dean himself, or admin or any other staff at keele must be quite hurtful to say the least.

Why would any person want to make such an offensive statement against the establishment that is given them an education that they are so privilidged to receive? I too am eager to find out the dates which I will be going on elective and consider this a matter of urgency however, I do not wish to publish such one sided negative comments about keele medical school that could effect its reputation.

Keele staff have always been very happy to assist my education in all ways possible. They are friendly approachable, always seem to know my name (even if i don't know their's) and are always there to listen and answer any questions. Their is always a great sense of community at keele, which I have always felt part of. The facilities are fantastic and most importantly they are always wanting to hear our opinions and try and adapt the course as best as possible to suit our needs. The clinical firms are small, there is a fantastic sign up system in which a student can chose to go to particular wards or departments of special interest whenever they like, and there is lots of oppurtunity for small group teaching with a wide range of medical staff.

I know how lucky i am to be receiving a medical education, not everybody has such a fantastic oppurtunity and want to thank keele for giving me that chance. I urge future students to come and see keele, soak up the atmosphere, have a chat to staff and students and not be put off by such negative and unhelpful comments.

[Gizmo says -]

wat is more important than stuff like this (ie issues wif admin) is the full living of your life at university. work, play, environment, facilities, course material, comrades, a partner. if you ave all these, then the admin problems dont count for diddlysquat.

[Gizmo says -]

.. and I want to thank keele for giving me that chance.

ay, macca. come on! lets not get to kiss ass.
i bet the staff fank you for the £50,000 in fees you bring into the uni too, like.

[Gizmo says -]

goodness we really dont want this fread descending into the debacle thats the georges one.

keele a million light years from that, and i'm not referring to the train trip!

[greengiant]

OK.

I'm really sorry that my post caused such an outburst by ppl that like the course at Keele. I just feel taht the course has been badly run and students have suffered a lot. We pay tuition fees and lots of people (including myself) are in a lot of debt for being on a course which I feel isn't well organised. I've said that I have really enjoyed the clinical side, the time on the wards and the teaching by the doctors- I love medicine & know it's really for me so have no regrets there.

I'm glad that there are other people are still enjoying the way the course is run here. Clearly it's worked for them. Its just not worked for me. I really don't want to tell people what to do, I just want to tell people who are thinking about going to Keele my experience which has been good with respect to consultant teaching & practical classes but poor with respect to the running of the course, implementation of new changes & staff-student communication. They can then hopefully weigh up good & bad opinions of everyone & decide for themselves.

Sorry again for any upset I've caused. x

[Tiny]

A few very hypocritical remarks in the original poster's comments, but i'm sure they are valid to you nevertheless. First and foremost, this individual is clearly not intent on providing a two sided argument, as they would have had more input into this forum, and would most likely have had more posts than their measly single post (although that may not be the case). Instead, they have provided a very one sided and rather bitter sounding account of a medical school that is still finding it's feet in a field of severe competitiveness. I particularly like the way they have stated how they are providing both sides to the story, yet only commented about the positive aspects in a little less than 2 lines (I can go on forever about that).

Am I right in assuming that you are a third year, and if you are.....it's a little judemental to be saying these things about disorganisation, when you have pretty much only been on a clinical firms for the best part of 2-3 weeks (post nursing duties). I hardly think you are in the right position to be making such sweeping statements. Also, to comment on 4th year issues in not your place as it does not affect you and you do not have a full account of the situation. Yes accomodation was a problem...but that has apparantly been evaluated and eradicated as an issue.

Yes there have been changes to what was said on the prospectus, but bear in mind...everything in the prospectus has an asterix point...with that point being "subject to change"...so they are in essence within their rights to alter certain aspects of the course (not that I think it is the correct way to do things).

I also like the way you have pointed out that it is "your own" opinion, yet are having a rather big impact on future applicants by suggesting they do not apply to Keele. Please take into consideration that your views are probably isolated, so to make such a massive statement seems a little misguided to me.

OK you have experienced problems, but the bottom line is....you knew what you were getting yourself in for (as Crog pointed out earlier). It is a new med school, and needs time to adjust...just like you wouldn't expect Derby County to mount a premiership title challenge this year. If you do have issues...why not talk it over with the staff and alllow them the opportunity to improve on these "so called mistakes".

I for one think that Keele is a fantastic medical school. I went to Birmingham for my undergraduate degree, and i can tell you straight...it isn't a patch on Keele...and that's saying something, considering the fact that Birmingham is a red brick institution and a very well recognised university.

For those reading this forum, take into account that different people want different things. Keele is not London..and it has never claimed to be...so don't expect something that is clearly not available from the offset.