University Choices for Grad Medicine

[superdoc1]

The fees are a pain in the arse, especially when considering the GEP counterparts in the UK, but it becomes quite hard to feel sorry for yourself when the non-EU students in your class are paying €44K per year. If they can deal with that, I don't think €48K is quite so daunting.

They are a pain in the arse. However, the 48K is the bare minimum debt that each student who pays their own way will have.

In some cases, parents/spouses/family members may be able to support the GEP student.

But in most cases, the student will support themselves and run up a debt of closer to 100K for the course.

Its not really an even comparison with the non-Eu students. The median medical school debt in the US is $140000 anyway. A 'regular' Irish undergrad would never come near that figure considering that only living expenses (if any) need to be covered for the free 5/6 years in med school

[couldntgetaname]

The fees are a pain in the arse, especially when considering the GEP counterparts in the UK, but it becomes quite hard to feel sorry for yourself when the non-EU students in your class are paying €44K per year. If they can deal with that, I don't think €48K is quite so daunting.

I don't think it's a valid sample set - I wouldn't be making too great an assumption if I was to say that non-EU med students as a whole are somewhat more 'comfortable' than the average Irish student [either in terms of access to better financial packages at home, higher earning potential, or wealthy parents].

We are - according to Dick Roche in the Dail the other day - among the richest nations in the world. How is it that, given our chronic problems in staffing our healthcare system, we can't find it in the coffers to set up a system in which GEP applicants rank CAO choices solely in terms of the nature of the courses and not have to even consider the financial aspects?

Even if we take the lowest possible debt of 50k [assuming people live at home, steal books from the library and drink tap water in the SU] and the lowest possible interest rate [0%], and write that off against 5 years of income that's €200 a *week*. Doesn't sound terrible, but an SHO trying to find a place to live after forking out €800 a month [in lala 0% interest land] on a loan won't exactly be living it up. That's a mortgage-sized chunk of cash, but no house to show for it.

My psych background is screaming at me that this arrangement of incentives is fundamentally unhealthy and *will* inevitably drive doctors towards topping up their public salaries [principles and good intentions be damned], or worse leaving the country altogether. Either way, as a taxpayer my health service will have lost money and seen a poor return on investment. Again. That gets tiring

Whether I look at this as an applicant, a taxpayer, or a wholly objective observer it smells bad. I have a philosophical distaste for private interference in public healthcare, and this system seems to lead inevitably down that particular dark alley. In a few years half of this country's new doctors will be from GEPs which means that in a few more years half of this country's new consultants will be bringing the echoes of that debt to the contract negotiation table. Whether they do it now or in 2025, the HSE *will* be paying the full cost of all medical degrees. I can't help but feel that they [and by extension taxpayers and students] would get better value for money if they pay up now.

But, at the end of the day, I'll still be racing down the N7 as soon as the offer comes through the letterbox to sign up for four years in stab city - and there's not a HSE botch job yet devised that could stop me.

I know it looks like I'm a ranting loon, but I don't do happy-clappy very well and my current job is mind numbingly boring so I have lots of time alone with my thoughts and nobody to bounce them off. Plus there are plenty of people raising the nice issues like start dates, immunisation requirements and whatnot - I'll look after doom and gloom.

[CatherineT]

couldn'tgetaname - don't at all think you're doom and gloom- please don't take anything I ever say as a criticism - the financial issues are a very real concern for so many of us - and I know that I've found it really reassuring in the past to know that others out there - in the ether of the internet - are interested and concerned and thinking about this stuff. Is good to know that there are folks out there in our corner, all fighting for a common cause! I look forward to meeting some of you - hopefully in the not too distant future - will be good to share these things with people that we can see - and we can discuss any miscommunications we have - I know I'm rubbish at the whole inter-forum thing! Neway - keep on raging against the machine - we do appreciate it!

As for the boring job - totally get where you're coming from - I am on this website far too often, cos I'm bored to tears too!