"Spent conviction rules top student out of medical course..."

[Gizmo says -]

Originally Posted by Seng

random thread. The guy broke the law, he shouldn't get into medical school. Lot of people live in bad areas and turn out without criminal records and who are clever as well; pick them because they will be a safer bet. Why take a risk when there is no need to?

becos there is no risk.

'uman beings arent statistics, in case you've not noticed.

you ought to take that lesson on board as early as possible.

[Dr Noodle]

Originally Posted by Arch_Angel

As above (and somewhat unusually) I'm not taking a side.

I can't take a side on this either. The article I read (think it was in The Times) wasn't too clear. He was given an offer, then revealed his criminal conviction, then had his offer withdrawn?

If he was young, stupid and very naive at the time of the robbery and had shown increased maturity and responsibility since then (and I don't mean via a couple of hours volunteering work to puff up his personal statement) then I don't see why he should be rejected.

However if he chose to hide it until the last minute instead of being upfront about it, if I was a admissions officer, I'd think that was a bit iffy and would find myself questioning his integrity (coupled with the fact that he went to the media (attention seeker?), what a tit).

[kotoreru]

It's unclear whether he did hide his conviction (or whether he has a conviction at all), Dr. Noodle. If we assume he did hide it, which I find hard to believe given how these things are handled within medschools, then yes sure it shows lack of integrity and honesty.

The interesting point comes when we consider his having not hid his conviction, and still getting rejected. It's where the divide here comes from.

[LightElf7]

I do agree that we all probably have "broken" the law in some way or other, but say breaking the speed limit by a small amount is still a different case from burglary isnt it? And I dont think 15 is that young really - You are by then at highschool or right before. But each to their own about what they think about age.

But dont the universities not know of any convictions or criminal records before the CRB check, which is done after the application has been done or after the offer has been given? That was the case for me for all my university applications. So the unis could only know about a criminal record afterthe CRB check is done, which occurs after the application has been sent off or after the offer is already given. For my case I was given the CRB forms and such after I received offers from my unis.

[Dr Noodle]

I thought you are supposed to inform the school first before a CRB check is carried out?

Goodness the things I got up to when I was fifteen... There's a huge difference between how mature I was then and how I am now though.

[agneishd]

Originally Posted by Seng

Also 90% of medical students break the law? lol thats total nonsense, I've been to uni and a most of medical students are law abiding, work-a-holics. My gf who is a medic for example is so scared of breaking the law in case the GMC kick her out. 90% is a huge exaggeration, no wonder gimperial was insulted.

it isn't nonsense though... you read through this thread? breaking the law is a lot easier than you think...

[LightElf7]

Originally Posted by agneishd

it isn't nonsense though... you read through this thread? breaking the law is a lot easier than you think...

sure, but I think we're getting a bit offtopic here.
We were talking about this guy's offer withdrawal due to burglary. It seems as if an assumption is starting to run that that guy should be let in to medicine since we all break laws easily, and hence it is ok since we're all criminals with the only difference from us and that guy being it being on record and not.
It sure is very easy to break a law, but that does not immediately make us all into criminals unfit for medicine. It depends on the nature of what has been done, and burglary is a criminal act heavy enough to go on that guy's record.
We can all break laws easily, but being a criminal on record and not being one is quite different, as being on record means the crime you've undergone is heavy enough, whilst things like speeding (not extreme ones) does not go on record and surely does not make one unfit for medicine (I am excluding those who got away after undergoing a heavy crime). but burglary is a crime of slightly different nature, and I dont think it is neccessarily invalid to say that such a person cannot be fully trusted than those who have not underwent such crimes.

Whilst I do feel the guy should definitely be fit to practice medicine if he had sincerely learned his lesson (people DO change), if he did not inform the university about it before and the uni only found out after the CRB check, I think you could question his honesty and integrity, upon which the uni withdrawed the offer. Crime, whether on record or not, should not bar someone's future, but if that person only complains about bad environment/upbringing etc and not feel shame about it, that person I would consider would not be fit for medicine. It all depends on the person.

[Seng]

breaking the law in terms of speed limit or cycling on the road is one thing, burgling is another. To say a lot of medical students have been done crimes that could warrant a prison sentence is making quite an assumption.

And yes gizmo I'm sure some doctors turn to the drink and then an even smaller proportion drink and drive. But not every single doctor does that. I'd like to think the majority are better adjusted doctors who stayed on the straight and narrow.

[Singh.Simran]

Originally Posted by gimperial99

You clearly have problems simran. You seem to accuse people of things they not actually said.

You said, explicitly, that i was wrong in my assertion that 90% had committed a crime.

You've got no evidence for that and the fact of the matter is that there are ~7000 crimes in Britain, everyone's done one of them.

If you have a criminal record you should not be going to medical school. Speeding does not get you a criminal record (unless you are very reckless), whereas drink driving does. Police prosecute drivers all the time, but it does not show up.

Will you stop changing the argument and for once admit you were wrong!

Speeding is a CRIME. Most of the time you will neither be caught nor get prosecuted - but that doesn't change the fact that you have committed a crime. Which was the original argument, which every single post from then on you distance yourself, having realised everyone does commit crime - it's just usually neither serious nor found out.

If it was a prosecution, it would show up, and i know this by experience, it simpyl doesnt show up if it is a fixed penalty charge.

Out of interest what is the figure 90% based on?

A made up figure meaning "lots and lots, a vast majority".

If god forbid you ever become a doctor (I base this on your admission of criminality), you will have to fill in a CRB form every year. Perhaps that is a waste of time in your opinion?

I have about 1.5m away from me a completely clean eCRB disclosure. It is a very important check - on people that are not fit to practice. My argument is simply that being a criminal does not equate to that, for in the final analysis we are all criminals of a lesser or greater nature, if not prosecuted ones, and it is the FtP hearing that is the fair way of making rhe decision, not a blanket ban on criminal records in the medical profession, which is an arbitrary and extrajudicial punishment which if challenged under Article 3 of Shedule 1 to the Humran Rights Act 1998, i can assure you, with a competent lawyer, would be overturned by JR.

The real question we have to ask ourselves is this. This guy could become a GP where he will be doing home visits to YOUR mother. He will be in the house alone with her. Would you really be happy with that?

I've already said yeah sure. If he has a spotless record from age 16-30something when he makes GP, then he is safe and should not be judged by a MINOR teenage mistake.

[Singh.Simran]

Oh and by the way i hope you do suceed as a doctor.

While this forum would indicate some MAJOR superiority issues and a distinct lack of ability to deal with...people, you seem highly intelligent and probably very competant. And thats who i'd like operating on me, not a fellow socialist, ideally...

Reciprication would be nice, but it's ok, i'll live without your support.