A-level / Gamsat divide

[kiya]

Having recently sat both the GAMSAT (last Friday) and A-level Chemistry (June 06) and A-level Biology (yesterday), I was wondering why there is such an enormous gap in knowledge required between the two exams. Does anyone know?

The knowledge required in the Biology A-level yesterday was pitiful - including questions on health problems associated with obesity and "describing the trend" graphs. By comparison, GAMSAT was extremely complex, at least from my point of view.

It seems strange that there is such a gap in knowledge required. Is this to limit the number of arts graduates who get into med school, favouring the degree-level knowledge of science grads? Could it be to avoid the problems associated with choosing from multiple A-grade A-level candidates?

[mussed]

Umm, I don't really understand the question. GAMSAT wasn't designed with A-Level candidates in mind, or indeed with the comparison in mind. It requires much more concept-grasping and reasoning ability, and as GEP students are expected to learn faster that's only fair enough.

[Arch_Angle]

It's because really the universities have all decided that they don't want any medical students anymore, that they are too much hassle. They all locked their most evil professors in a room and let them out a month later.... They brought the GAMSAT with them. A creation forged from the very bitterness of human spirit. They called it the Gastly Awful Murderous Seething Atrocity Test........or maybe just because medicine is really hard to study and so many people apply. One or the other, i prefer the former

[kiya]

So many people apply and yet all the medical magazines are predicting a shortage of GPs.

Originally Posted by mussed

Umm, I don't really understand the question. GAMSAT wasn't designed with A-Level candidates in mind, or indeed with the comparison in mind. It requires much more concept-grasping and reasoning ability, and as GEP students are expected to learn faster that's only fair enough.

I was thinking mainly about Peninsula's 5 year course. Because I'm more than 2 years post sixth form, I have to take GAMSAT, despite having A-levels in the sciences. So there are applicants for exactly the same course who are being asked to show markedly different levels of knowledge.

Also Newcastle seems to afford GAMSAT and A-levels a similar standard, since they ask for evidence of 'recent academic endeavour' and then list both in the same sentence.

[maxine25]

Hi Kiya
How did you get on with your A level exam? mine was so easy unbeleivable. finished the whole thing in 40 minutes! you are absolutly right about the level of knowledege required to do the same course for the same degree. its like discrimnination against mature students really. they disregard all the experience and committment that a mature student have compare to 17-18 years olds. anyway i really needed to say this. i feel much better now:-) hope u did well in yours.
X M

[nqemtp]

I think the hint is in the name, Graduate Australian Medical School Admissions Test. The test is aimed at the GEP courses, who have 4 years to study, not the 5 years that Peninsula Medical School have for the undergraduate course. The GEP takes for granted that you have mastered the basic sciences, as indicated by your GAMSAT result.

Peninsula decided to accept this because of the obviously higher standard of the GAMSAT. There is nothing stopping anybody from doing their A-Levels again, as Peninsula only require GAMSAT if it is more than 2 years since their A-Levels. So it isnt really discriminating against mature students, more like giving them a choice.

Personally, I think it is actually a good exam in that if you can pass GAMSAT you can definitely pass anything medical school can throw at you. Also, you are unlikely to drop out in 1st year because you didnt realise the workload involved. Better doctors all round, even if it means that a lot of people get dissappointing letters in March every year.

It seems strange that there is such a gap in knowledge required. Is this to limit the number of arts graduates who get into med school, favouring the degree-level knowledge of science grads?

Unlikely, as the essay and humanities make up half the marks available. The view could equally be taken that this is to disadvantage science grads, as essays are a lot harder to prepare for than an MCQ. I am an Arts grad applying to Peninsula myself, by the way.

[Arch_Angle]

So you reckon that the GAMSAT is harder than any exam in medical school?

[Deagle]

Not wanting to spark up the 'a-levels getting easier debate', but I went through some GAMSAT stuff with my college A2 chem teacher and she mentioned a fair few topics that were coming up used to be on the a-level syllabus but weren't anymore - Gibbs free energy and entropy, solubility, more advanced cell redox reactions etc.

One lad I talked to at the exam had got into notts standard 5yr course last year on his a-level results but had to defer due to family problems. They said they'd have him this year, but only if he sat GAMSAT!

[kiya]

Yeah, my Chemistry teacher last year said there's less stuff on the A-level syllabus nowadays. I'm not just taking his word for it either - having started the subject over 10 years ago, it's definitely not as hard. The GAMSAT probably gives the best indication of the standard required from a first year med student, which is all very well and in the case of GEP courses obviously necessary, but when used to directly compare between 18 year olds and mature students just isn't a fair comparison.

Originally Posted by nqemtp

Peninsula decided to accept this because of the obviously higher standard of the GAMSAT. There is nothing stopping anybody from doing their A-Levels again, as Peninsula only require GAMSAT if it is more than 2 years since their A-Levels. So it isnt really discriminating against mature students, more like giving them a choice.

No, that's not true. I double checked with Peninsula, since I only sat science A-levels last year. They still required GAMSAT as I was more than 2 years post sixth form.

Originally Posted by maxine25

Hi Kiya
How did you get on with your A level exam? mine was so easy unbeleivable. finished the whole thing in 40 minutes! you are absolutly right about the level of knowledege required to do the same course for the same degree. its like discrimnination against mature students really. they disregard all the experience and committment that a mature student have compare to 17-18 years olds. anyway i really needed to say this. i feel much better now:-) hope u did well in yours.
X M

I think I did fine, thanks! Glad you did ok too. I didn't do any revision so was really bothered about how well it would go, but finished it before time and could answer every question. Relief really after last week!!

To summarise for everyone: I think this thread is just about my reaction to my A-level Biology exam yesterday which was like a GCSE paper and the GAMSAT last week which, well, wasn't.

[nqemtp]

Originally Posted by Arch_Angle

So you reckon that the GAMSAT is harder than any exam in medical school?

Never said that. What I meant was that the amount of study and preparation involved is indicative of that required in medical school, and the jump of knowledge required for the average person is quite high, much higher than from successive years in medical school, I understand from talking to people.

Also, In medical school (like all courses) they issue a syllabus, and once you keep up with that throughout the year, you should have a fairly good chance of passing the exams. Considering that there isnt even a syllabus for GAMSAT, you can see the difference straight away.

Oh, and trolling isnt very nice either!.

No, that's not true. I double checked with Peninsula, since I only sat science A-levels last year. They still required GAMSAT as I was more than 2 years post sixth form.

My apologies Kiya, I was going by what I had read on the website. Surely you could challenge this ruling, as it is clearly ageist.