graduates flocking off to dundee (u lucky things!)

[rubytuesday]

hello everybody***

im hoping to apply to dundee as a graduate next year/year after and...(am hoping this doesn't seem intensely cheeky [fingers crossed!])...but would any of you lucky successful Graduate Applicants be willing to share bits and bobs about your backgrounds/past degrees etc? my brain is beginning to feel a tad chaotic/overwhelmed/without hope at the moment...and am beginning to wonder whether im fooling myself over whether or not this is even remotely possible - the uncertainty is killing me!!

were any of you succesful in getting a place with an Arts Degree? and also...were any of you successful in getting a place when you didnt have the required grades at Higher whilst also NOT having a science degree?

i have a first class honours degree (from Dundee, although non science)...AAAABC at Higher - 2 sciences: human biology A but an AWFUL C in chemistry - damn damn damn chemistry!! i'll have to resit chemistry and biology again anyway due to glasgow admissions (who im also hoping to apply to) requiring graduate applic's to have sat their highers within the last 5 years. what i really wondered though, was have people been successful in gaining places at dundee after re-siting Highers? im aware it's so insanely competitive and the whole re-sit thing is a real worry!!

phew! sorry about the long and convoluted story...i guess im just having one of those gloomy down days so any inspirational acceptance stories may make for a smiley weekend!!

thank you people...and **well done** all you people with places - you lucky things!!

rubytuesday x

[catrionac]

Hi,

I can only give you my experience and hope that somehow it applies to you.

I sat my Irish Leaving Certificate in 2000 achieving fairly respectable points and a B in Bio and C in Chem. No where near the req's for med I headed to TCD for a degree in Science- specialised in Zoology, which is although very science heavy some of the Scot uni (namely glasgow, edinburgh) take issue with because we end up with the TCD BA(mod). I however ran into the problem of inadequate LC result in Chemistry for many unis (Edin, Glas, Bristol, Liverpool, etc). Resitting was not a choice for me. I finished my degree in 2004(high 2.1), and had applied for med 2004, but was unsuccessful, without interview, in all applications (Dundee, Newcastle(GEP), Liverpool(GEP), Cardiff).

At this point I thought I had decent healthcare experience (Pharmacy 2+ years, Med research in USA, plenty of family and friends in the profession), but no real hospital based experience. I sought and found a great job care assisting in a maternity hospital in dublin and have worked there the entire year since finishing college.

This experience enabled me to write a better, more convincing personal statement and complete a good interview. It didn't increase or decrease my desire for a career in medicine, it just made me more confident- to know that I could do that job, that I could deal with the pressures I saw, especially in difficult work conditions. I now have an unconditional offer from Dundee for med 2005.

HOWEVER, I was still unsuccessful, without interview, in 3 of my applications. Newcastle (5yr), Imperial, Queens. Queens, it came down to Chem at LC again (despite asking for clarification on LC req's before applying). Imperial and Newcastle it was simply competition. My application obviously did not stack up against the other applicants.

I found that I applied to a real mix of schools because different things appealed to me from different schools. Location, course structure, living costs, etc all were important aspects. I did not want to sit the GAMSAT.

My advice first of all is to do your research, do your research, do your research. I can not stress this enough. Make sure you have ALL the req's for the school you want. Talk to as many people as you can within admissions and the med dept about how they handle non-traditional applicants. Find out if your profile is a good fit for that school. Certain aspects of your application will appeal to some schools, and be totally undervalued by others.

Secondly, get as much experience as you can. In all aspects of healthcare. I found sticking with the same job for the year served me well (good variety, based in operating theatre, but night duty on post-natal ward) others may advise going to a variety of hospitals. Talk to as many people as you can while there. Nurses, managers, doctors at all levels. Talk to people you know love their job and talk to people who aren't getting on well. ( in one day I spoke with someone who was leaving med, and another guy who couldn't shut up about how much he loved it!) SHOs and interns are the best sources of info.

In terms of re-sits and non-science degree I know that the GEP courses around the UK accept all types of students. Get a 1st if you want GEP (easier said than done I know). TALK to people in admissions, perferably on phone where they can't ignore you and you can ask many questions! Search the site here for the schools you want and find out how grad friendly the are.

The only thing else I want to say is be patient. I got in on my last school (albeit 1st choice) in my 3rd year of application (if you count once as a school-leaver) so it can be done. Just do the best you can, check all the boxes and do more so they can't leave you out of their med school. If you want it, it will happen...eventually!

all the best, and apologies for the length of reply!
catriona

[Simon]

'Heellllo, Ruuubytuesday!'

Don't worry - it can be done; I'm living proof!

I'm in my final year of English at St Andrews at present, and I have a conditional offer for medicine at Dundee beginning September.

My school grades are similar to yours - AAABC in English, Biology, Modern Studies, Economics, and Physics, respectively. I think that's great that you have the C in chemistry; I think you may be able to by-pass any conditional requirement at Dundee with that.

I'm sitting Higher Chemistry at the moment, and my offer is conditional on me obtaining a B in that. However, I have been told that if I don't make that grade, I can do the pre-med year instead.

I applied to Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Newcastle (Accelerated). I had interviews at Newcastle and Glasgow, as well as Dundee, but was rejected from both. I kind of signed my own death-warrant at Edinburgh by writing to them in March that I would like them to consider me independent of the Higher Chemistry I was sitting; I was rejected a few days later...

If you're wanting to stay in Scotland, I would very seriously reconsider applying to Glasgow. Firstly because I am very doubtful about the amount of PBL teaching they do on their course. I think that, as an Arts graduate, you will be thankful to get a sound scientific basis. All three other med schools (and St Andrews, but I'm not sure if they accept Arts grads) will offer you this. I'm not syaing Glasgow doesn't at all, but I think it's very questionable, and as yet, untried, their system of education.
Secondly - and this is quite subjective and purely personal opinion - the interview there really put me off. Both interviewers were very harsh and seemed a bit arrogant. I really don't understand the necessity of this at medical school interviews; if they want to see how you would handle pressure from snooty consultants in a hospital environment, I hope that I'd have the guts to tell them to speak more respectfully if they want me to learn anything from them.

Dundee exhibited a whole different attitude which seemed, even at interview stage, of encouraging the applicant to be relaxed and to feel confident. It's very bad psychology to think that by scaring someone you will somehow make them better doctors in the end.

There's no need to go on about Dundee's excellent reputation for medicine, especially the standards of teaching and medical research in surgery, oncology, and drug development.

Please, please consider applying to Glasgow very carefully!

I think if you have a decent scientific background from school - which you do with your biology and chemistry - a 1st in your degree, you would be better spending time in getting some hospital-based experience than re-sitting those Highers. If you did any more Highers, why not consider physics, or Advanced Higher biology? Either will show that you still have the capacity for scientific study. But I really don't think admissions people will think that you have lost that ability since leaving school!

So go for it; I don't believe you're at any disadvantage with an arts degree. Like catrionac said, research carefully which universities will accept this. Ask them if they would consider you with a c in Higher chem. But I think that with biology and chemistry at Higher level, you have the minimum requirements anyway. Most unis will say you need to have a minimum of five b's or so. I think you can risk applying with a first-class degree and a c in chemistry and still have very good chances, as long as you have some excellent work experience/job in a related area.

All the best - please feel free to ask any more questions.

Simon

[rubytuesday]

hello catrionac and simon****

*thank you*, *thank you* , *thank you* for your replies...faith and positivity is now restored - it's so good to know that it can be done!! i guess everything just seems so uncertain at this stage, and a little overwhelming!!

you're both so right in terms of researching courses...i'd far rather stay in scotland due to the horrific (shock!) financial implications of studying in england, but then again...if that's what it takes!! have looked into both newcastle and manchester and they both seem like possibles. dundee seems REALLY impressive and, to be honest, were one of the most helpful/positive when i initially rang them up in january when i began my 'nervous plotting'!! should perhaps phone them up again now i have more of an idea about the whole process and suss out/clarify their position on the whole C in chemistry thing!!

your work experience job sounds amazing catrionac!! i've just been offered a job as a support assistant which should hopefully be great in terms of experience
in a care-related environment and i'll hopefully be able to organise some hospital-based work experience at my local hospital (fingers crossed). what kind of health care experience did you have simon? you seem SUPER ORGANISED squeezing revision for finals/higher chemistry/applying to med-school into your time - i really can't believe you are sitting your finals aaaaand Higher Chemistry at the same time - am in awe...GOOD LUCK to you!!

thank you both for your positive thoughts - you've made my day!!

ps. simon - hope you're not been lured out of revision in the library by the yummy tav bar pizzas...do they even still do them? ahh nostalgia!!

[Simon]

Hey rubytuesday,

i worked with a voluntary organisation for two years, aboard a ship, during which time i travelled to about 28 different countries.

i've worked in two different nursing homes, one for six months and the other for two. besides that i only spent a week on ward round on a general medical ward, and a total of three days with three different gp's.

dundee asked me about my time as a care assistant. they said that it is quite different from the actual practice of medicine so why do i think it was a helpful experience for me. i talked about how it was a very 'basic' level of care which focused on the individual and his/her specific needs. i thought that this was excellent training for the training of being a doctor which focusses on and appreciates the individuality of each patient. i said that i hoped, even if i went into the most technical part of medicine, that my time in the nursing homes would have been a great foundation for me maintaining an attitude of care.

so be prepared to defend your work experience! don't expect them just to like tha fact that you have worked in a poorly paid, smelly job!

by the way, morag mathews at dundee can sometimes sound a bit gruff on the phone, but she's really lovely. just good old scottish straight-to-the-pointness; don't be put off by it. but they are, in general, incredibly helpful. there are going to be some curriculum changes from next year onwards. i met a friend at the cinema last night who teaches on the course and she says that it won't all be definite til after the summer. but basically it should see the first year students spending more time at ninewells during the second semster of first year, instead of being largely on campus.

all the best,

simon.

[Simon]

hey ruby, what did you study?

[rubytuesday]

hi simon...

wow!! you sound like you have done a LOT in life. what kind of voluntary organisation did you work for?...it all sounds v.exciting sailing all over the world! are you currently a mature student on your first degree?...or have you just managed to pack an incredible amount of things into a v.short space of time??

my degree is in Design - from Duncan of Jordanstone...how far from medicine could i possibly be, i know? im regarding it as a temporary glitch - just hope they see it that way!!

so where in the world did you go to on your boat? am at this v.moment trying to organise visas for my little foray into globe trotting - v.frustrating business all this trying to jump through visa loopholes - eek!! any places you'd recommend? am hoping to organise some voluntary/humanitarian work while im out there in order to avoid paying the ridiculously high fees demanded by all the gap year organisations - fingers crossed!!

hope all the revision is going splendidly - *good luck!!*

[Simon]

hey rubytues -

i took two years out after school. it was a christian organisation called operation mobilisation.

i'd definitely recommend south africa; top choice. and brazil, if you have the chance.

sitting in uni library (st andrews) trying to write an essay just now...not going well.

cheery bye

simon