Clinical examination of peers

[Althalus]

I know this is going to sound very odd, but I was wondering if any current medical students could tell me where the med schools draw the line with regard to clinical examination of your peer group.

I'm obviously quite happy to let other people perform motor, cardiac, respiratory exams etc. not fussed about practising taking blood, canulars etc. But at the same time I would have significant issues with my direct peers practising any the more intimate exams, especially in a group setting!

So I guess my question is where do/should med schools draw the line, is it fairer to practice on each other rather than patients and how do you deal with the inevitable problems that would bring to the table?

[Touche]

Hahahahaha... little jelly... gonna be cold mate... here it comes... finger up the bum

Not appropriate for intimate exams to take place on colleagues. You should not (and I hope will not) ever be asked to allow yourself to be examined like this.

It is not fairer to use colleagues rather than patients! There are appropriate models available for practicing PRs and PVs. You can have someone run through genital examination techniques in a lecture. Then you can sit in on doctors doing it and see how it's done... finally trying it on patients in a supervised environment with consent.

How I'd deal with a request by a colleague to PR me or asking to catheterise me? "bugger off, tis not appropriate".

[cyberjay]

Take a peer for a lover - problem solved.

You're welcome

CJ

[Touche]

My gf's finger is banned from my bum!

[rjm]

I cant believe you even asked this question. Noone would expect you to let your colleagues practice intimate examinations on you. If you didnt want basic external exams performed on you then you have the right to refuse.

[auden]

many even have issues these days with peers practising cannulation on each other.

though you can get some odd situations arising once you're on clinicals; not intimate exams but two of my colleagues got an abdo USS in front of a class of 16 of us last week - if there'd been pathology (or if the female examined had been pregnant), we'd all have seen it

[Touche]

Cannulation is something I think everyone should have done on them at least once. Not so much for practice, more so you can really appreciate what you're doing to your patients.

I've had a mate take an ABG from me, and I changed my practice based on it as I now know some maneuvers hurt like a bitch (the git!).

auden, a fetus at 7 weeks is around 3mm which is not really detectable by a group of medical students scanning transabdominally, and they'd be 3 weeks late for their period by that stage... so realistically an unsuspected pregnancy would be unlikely to turn up in a random teaching scan.

[rjm]

Like most things in life, noone can make you have anything done to you that you dont want. I have never been cannulated by one of my friends, I have had blood taken by them, in fact the first time we ever took blood we did it on each other. It was bloody scary! I have however had cannulas, ABGs and even an LP, so I know what they all feel like.

I would advise you to let your friends practice basic examinations (CVS, resp, abdo etc) on you as when it comes to OSCEs, you will spend hours practising on each other.

[DamianUK]

Touche, so glad someone else has had "the talk" with the gf...she can wait until she gets a patient to practice on!

I was always the one getting my shirt off in clinical kills as not many people were willing (not i am not an exhibitionist).
However after an op i found that cannulas don't hurt me so let people practice on the backs of my hands.
Never had an ABG but those that have say they will be using anaesthetic gel when not an emergency as they hurt so much.

In short, if your happy then do it if you don't feel happy say bugger off.

[alex MD]

rjm, you had an LP? as in lumbar puncture; to allow someone to practice? If so, your a lot braver than I am, its gonna be bad enough for occy health to get blood off me to check my hep b antibodies!