Clinical examination of peers

[rjm]

Originally Posted by alex MD

rjm, you had an LP? as in lumbar puncture; to allow someone to practice? If so, your a lot braver than I am, its gonna be bad enough for occy health to get blood off me to check my hep b antibodies!

God no, you'd never do that unless it was clinically indicated, the risks outweigh the benefits of practising! No I had one for suspected meningitis. I also remember ABGs not hurting, but that may be because I hurt everywhere else, that said, I'm not going to let anyone try on me!

I'm quite weird in that most people dont like the needles in blood tests, I have no issues with the needles, what I cant stand is the feeling when you press on it after the needle comes out! Very odd I know!!

[auden]

Originally Posted by Touche

auden, a fetus at 7 weeks is around 3mm which is not really detectable by a group of medical students scanning transabdominally, and they'd be 3 weeks late for their period by that stage... so realistically an unsuspected pregnancy would be unlikely to turn up in a random teaching scan.

I wasn't suggesting that she wouldn't know she was pregnant - just that she might not have told us before she was chosen at random to be scanned and not given the option of saying no.... I know my peers well, but I don't generally expect to know whether they're pregnant as soon as they do

[rjm]

well it would have made for an interesting scan!

[yazoo]

It's interesting that this continues to be an issue throughout medicine. I was on a post grad course recently where the tutor selected volunteers for an examination. One person said no, and they were told that it was just part of the job and to get on with it. They again refused, and said they would prefer if not everyone in the group would look at their stoma bag. A reminder as to why volunteers should be just that! You never know why somebody is refusing.

[rjm]

well done to that person for standing up for themselves, its a shame they were put into that position where they had to tell everyone why. It surprises me as most people who teach clinical examination are surely clinicians of one form or enough and should appreciate right to choose (If they are not clinicall trained, why on earth are they teaching clinical skills!). And usually you can find someone willing to volunteer.

[Fried_Rice]

The furthest I have heard of people going are some fifth years who put NG tubes in each other.

I'm drawing the line at cannulas or ABGs though.

[Polldoll]

I know we dont have as many invasive procedures to practice in nursing, but I always found it useful practicing BPs etc on my peers. (We spend one lab session feeding each other and cleaning their teeth!!) Never found injection technique much use, IMs on an orange, then in practice in to arms of skinny old ladies.. big difference! So I hope I can take blood from peers before I hit the wards!!

[Genevieve]

Do you not get to do venpuncture as a student nurse Polldoll?

[Polldoll]

Nope, it an extended role in nursing, you have to do an extra course once you have qualified. Similar to male catheterisation and IV Drugs.

So far the practical side of nursing has been very disappointing, and out in practice we must be directly supervised in everything we do! And obviously there is much that we have to wait until qualified before we can do it.

I hope I can adapt to life as a medical student...

[Varied A]

We can do venepuncture here as student nurses, but not many do - just depends on whether you happen to be aware of a course when you're out in placement and get your name down on it. Same with male catheterisation.

It's silly really, you spend 3 years learning to be a nurse then you have to start learning all the clinical skills once you're out of that supported learning environment and fending for yourself.