Physician assistants

[Muffin2]

http://www.medicine.bham.ac.uk/prosp...cianassistant/

Didn't really know where to put this thread. What are people's opinions on this, I only found out about it the other day from a friend.

[piglet8]

hi
sounds a bit like working like a doctor without the same amount of training and at a lower pay scale! dodgy stuff if u ask me
tbh, their entry requirenments are a 2:1 BSc and the course run over 2 years, why then not add 2 years and go down the GEP route and not being the assistant anything

[yeliab_cram]

This is a job as an SHO for life essentially, but without the full medical training. In the era of the european working time directive we need more junior doctors but cant really afford to then offer them all speicalist training posts. It appears that this is someone's half arsed solution. spiffing.

[rjm]

Originally Posted by piglet8

hi
sounds a bit like working like a doctor without the same amount of training and at a lower pay scale!

Hmm...not so sure about the lower payscale bit, my pay is slap bang in the middle of that pay range - although my potential earnings at 55 are possibly a bit more than the upper range given there.

[Muffin2]

I think its a bit dodgy to. Effectively they're training for two years and becoming a doctor in all but name. I wouldn't want one treating me. Just because something works in the US doesn't mean its gonna work here.

[Varied A]

Originally Posted by Steph8552

I think its a bit dodgy to. Effectively they're training for two years and becoming a doctor in all but name. I wouldn't want one treating me. Just because something works in the US doesn't mean its gonna work here.

No, but just because something works in the US doesn't mean it's not going to work here either.

It does look a bit dodgy to me, but that has nothing to do with the training structure or what they're going to do. The lack of clarity regarding what's going to happen with professional registration, and legal issues such as the right to prescribe, makes me think that anybody who takes on this course at the moment is taking on quite a gamble.

[Victoria09]

This came up before somewhere. It's kind of weird that if they wanted to make this an 'easier' alternative to medicine, the course is actually less accessible. I wouldn't be qualified for it at all, as someone who has a BA instead of a BSc - and there is no funding available unlike for the GEP. I can't think what sort of graduate would want to spend their money on this course only to be an 'assistant' forever.

[rjm]

No, they are not training them to become a doctor in everything but name at all. They will essentially have the same role as emergency nurse practitioners (although maybe not the experience) - they are able to take histories, exam patients, perform basic investigations (ECG, Bloods, blood gases, order xrays), do some practical things eg catheterise), and use this to make a diagnosis under medical guidance. They can also initiate basic treatment such as analgesia, nebulisers etc. ENPs that I have experience of working with work very closely with the senior junior doctor and are directed to suitable patients to "clerk" by them ie, they tend to be the more straightforward patients.

I have similar concerns with this as junior doctors assistants. As much as I love JDAs in the middle of the night when I am really busy and dont have time to bleed Mr X for his INR and catheterise Mrs Y, there is the potential risk of deskilling the junior docs as the JDAs are being trained in more and more practical procedures including things like chest drains, LPs, ascitic taps. The concern is that when they fail at the difficult procedures, who will they turn to. It certainly wont be the doctors who wont have had the experience in doing the straight forward ones because the JDAs have done them all.

[yazoo]

It sounds frustrating to me, if you want to be a Dr and are considereing alternate careers. The main thing going for the job is if you don't want the responsibility of making the harder choices. There will be less responsibility, but that is where the challenge of medicine comes in...

[heed]

if they are just like Nurse Practitioners, then why do we need yet another "mini-doctor" with a special name - why do we not just upskill the nurse practitioners and recruit more of them? the way this is heading its going to be harder and harder to actually see a doctor - and lets face it, there are plenty of patients who are not going to accept "hi im the physicians assistant - i have had half the training of the JHOs and im going to be looking after you" no matter how much supervision there is. does it really save doctors time when they need to supervise the physicians assistants to provide the "medical guidance" they need to diagnose and treat?

the deskilling is the major threat here - with "technicians" and "assistants" for pretty much everything now, like a previous poster said, when exactly are we expected to learn how to do these things - lets not forget that if a physicians assistant acting under a doctors "guidance" makes a mess of things, its gonna be both of you getting a phone call from the "no win - no fee - no self respect" lawyers at Blame4Claims.com... not a responsibility i want.

as yeliab said earlier - "half assed" solutions for an amply buttocked problem - not enough doctors, not enough money.

would the same thing be accepted anywhere else:
"good morning ladies and gentlemen and welcome aboard your flight to new york. I am david - your pilots assistant for your flight today. I will be getting the plane in the air, pointing it in the general direction of "East" and hoping that all these buttons and switches and dials dont do anything that wasnt included in my 'aeroplane operating skills-acquisition course'. and if all else fails, i will call the proper pilot back at base and he can come and help us land - that is if i have actually taken you to new york and not Cape Town. oh well. here goes...."