Physician assistants

[Anjoo]

Hi Polaris87

From what I know and I have seen PA's in practice, the PA's have to study Pharmacology as part of their medical course. So they learn about the mechanisms of drugs etc as medical students do.

Majority of the people you'll see doing this course will be science graduates with the theory already.Can't see why they would be harmful to the patients because they already have the knowledge and they get 2 years training in a hospital.

I think its about time some of you gave them a break and let them get on with this new profession, afterall some of you are going to be future doctors and will be working with PA's at some point. Perhaps your opinions will change about them then.

[Anjoo]

Steph you mentioned in your post:

"i'd prefer that to joe bloggs who has had two years training. my dad had one of them in about a week ago and a consultant anaesthetist did it"

Steph, from what I've heard, some of these joe bloggs have PhD's in Science, some are nurses with valuable experience, some are scientists etc etc. They're obviously not getting any joe bloggs off the street lol. Having a first degree is a pre-requisite for this course. Also you mentioned 2-years training, PA's are in GP Practice and in Hospitals for 2years and then on an internship for 1 year before they are let loose. Purely practical as well as didactic. So I'm at a loss to understand your point here?

You need to construct your argument concisely before you make statements.

[Polaris87]

I understand your points, I'm just still wary of a new profession which seems by a large fairly unregulated and a bit haphazard, even the website which I mentioned above said the post-degree training had yet to be finalised.

I guess the previous degree argument doesn't hold much for me as I'm starting grad med in september, and I don't think I'd feel comfortable prescribing after the first 2 years of my medical degree despite my strong science background. But that may just be me, and I haven't got there yet.

I think if I saw evidence that it worked in this country I'd be ok with it all. Obviously people are going to be sceptical until it can be proven that it works, and that PAs are actually needed, bizarrely considering the seeming competition for jobs for junior doctors.

[Anjoo]

Hi Polaris

Thanks for your response.

Yes I agree with your points and I'm sure that even the students who are studying this course may feel the same but are taking that risk and these are the first batch of pioneers trying it for the first time.

I really doubt prescribing rights will come into force yet not until this new role works. The evidence and evaluation will only be carried out until these PA's are actually trained and start working. Some of my med students mates went into hospital in their 3rd year and were grilled on their anatomy knowledge, and we have to consider that some of these PA's may be well grounded on this but just need the practical work.

[DamianUK]

Anjoo,

I'm not worried anymore, they just scrapped the course as i said in an earlier post.

We won't really be working with them as no more are about to be produced (at least not in the near future).

Not cost effective as this was the reason cited for stopping the course.

As for them prescribing? Well all i can say is i will stick with my prejudice and i only want a doctor prescribing.
My god after 8 years i am still at the point where i need hand holding and am going to be limited in what i can order and prescribe for the next 2 years. Do you really think that 18 months at uni (as they get holidays and do "placements" on the pa course means they will be anywhere near ready to do the job?

Why bother training doctors? If they do the same job and you thin kthey can prescribe then don't you think medical school should be scrapped and we all move over to 18 months lectures and 18 months placement.

Maybe us medical students are a bit slow needing all this time just to be an F1.

[Anjoo]

Of course it hasn't been scrapped, in fact they are already recruiting for next year lol. Where did you get your information from? call bham uni and they will tell you it hasn't. Do you know something we don't

The PA's don't get holidays, just summer from what I know.

[Anjoo]

Its still on by the looks of it:

http://www.postgraduate.bham.ac.uk/p...ssistant.shtml

[yazoo]

Originally Posted by Polaris87

I guess the previous degree argument doesn't hold much for me as I'm starting grad med in september, and I don't think I'd feel comfortable prescribing after the first 2 years of my medical degree despite my strong science background. But that may just be me, and I haven't got there yet..

No - it's not just you. I've done grad med, and like Damion says, junior Drs need supervision at the start. I could not have prescribed after a couple of years at med school - it was hard enough after a (largely irrelevant) science degree (and I would argue that most are from a clinical perspective) and a medical degree! Diagnosing illness requires knowledge and experience. Only when this is done, can the prescribing begin.

Which brings me on to the bigger issue.

All
prescriptions they write must be signed by a doctor.

What self-respecting Dr is just going to sign? Prescribing involves taking responsibility for acting in the best interests of the patient. If you don't establish the diagnosis is correct for yourself you risk serious harm to the patient (and risk being struck off as you really do need to take responsibility for your own actions). So you will just repeat most of the job (clearly the basic investigations won't need to be redone, but everything else...). Now where is the economy in that? Who benefits except for the additional but unnecessary employee?

PhD's in Science

Just how does this benefit the patient? Please explain...

[Anjoo]

PA's may not even get prescribing rights until they are fully conversant in their role, [which could mean 5 years or more, we don't know] or in fact they may never get them, I wouldn't expect the doctor to sign anything withoout looking at the whole case in context. Some PA's don't even get involved in the prescribing aspect, they leave that to the actual doctor. But in some aspects you are right.

My point about PhD's was that not any joe bloggs is being recruited onto the course, some of the people do have a well grounded knowledge in anatomy. This benefits the patient because the medical practitioner will confidently identify and determine diagnosis through knowledge.

[yazoo]

EEK. SGUL are offering one too!!! Quote from their website:

Successful completion of this two year intensive full time programme, will qualify students to practice in the as yet unregistered profession. Meanwhile, a national reference group is overseeing the creation of a voluntary register.

Worth looking at the UKAPA website too!!!