BARTS vs KINGS - HELP?!?WHICH TO ACCEPT?!? ANY ADVICE PLS!!! CONFUSED

[Knowalot2]

HELP! CONFUSED BETWEEN KINGS AND BARTS- WHICH TO ACCEPT?!? ADVICE PLS!!! CONFUSED

Hi everyone,
I've received offers frm both Kings and Barts (finally)but I'm completely confused abt which one to accept.
I'm a forced Gap year student who lives in E. London btw.

I honestly have no idea which one.

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1) DISTANCE: In terms of distance (live near East ham station)- Barts is just 15 min away frm my house... and v. v. easy to get to (district line goes straight there). However it takes 35 min to get to Kings . Basically its easier to go to Barts in terms of travelling. But 35 min. is not that much is it?

Can go to Barts by car. But for Kings can't go by car due to congestion charge thingy- am I just being too lazy?Should I take this factor into account- considering that I'll have to go here for 6 years???

ALSO I've heard that Kings students have to go to Lewisham University Hospital- this is like really really far away (an hour at max) (will have to use like Blackwall tunnel...opp side of river Thames)... Also how often will I have to go to Lewisham hospital ??0

2) TEACHING: In terms of teaching styles- Neither influence my decision as they both suit me. Integrated(mixture) or PBL, I don't mind either. And I've heard at Barts that PBL is ONLY 4 hours per week.

3) LEAGUE TABLES: However Kings is higher up the league tables compared to Barts. Kings is in the top 20 World unis. whilst Barts is in the top 100. But does this really matter. I mean, in the end all the students frm both unis. end up registering with the GMC (and obv. gaining an MBBS degree). So does this matter?

4) GAP YEAR STUDENTS: Is this something I should look at. As I'm a forced Gap yr student myself...I don't want to be behind everyone by a year. Which university has a greater percentage of gap yearers?

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What to do? Which one. I've been to both open days, and yes I like both of the universities...plus all the med. students were friendly...

Is there anything else I should look at? Which wud u choose???


Thanks in advance.
Kanya

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(you may have noticed this post in the GKT section some time ago but that's becoz I want to have an idea of what poeple in this sections of the forum say)

[minnako]

I can't talk for people actually in unis, but I think that a lot have gap year students. Kings has quite a high proportion of graduates, as has Barts, apparently, so you certainly won't be behind.

Especially if you're one year 'behind', it's not normally a problem at uni, because it's not a huge time difference. I can only talk from my experience, about uni in general, but my friends range in age from people brought forward a year to those who took a couple of years out. It really isn't that unusual, and from what I've heard of both universities from students studying there, both have quite a few graduates there.

[TimmyF]

4) GAP YEAR STUDENTS: Is this something I should look at. As I'm a forced Gap yr student myself...I don't want to be behind everyone by a year. Which university has a greater percentage of gap yearers?

I had a Gap year after school, in my 3rd year of a BSc and am having a Gap year before med school, and also since my birthday is in September I will be 24 when I start at Barts, (and 29 before I get a job) so dont worry about age!

[Everhopeful]

Bear in mind this is only my opinion, but see below for comments..

HELP! CONFUSED BETWEEN KINGS AND BARTS- WHICH TO ACCEPT?!? ADVICE PLS!!! CONFUSED

Hi everyone,
I've received offers frm both Kings and Barts (finally)but I'm completely confused abt which one to accept.
I'm a forced Gap year student who lives in E. London btw.

I honestly have no idea which one.

----------------------------

1) DISTANCE: In terms of distance (live near East ham station)- Barts is just 15 min away frm my house... and v. v. easy to get to (district line goes straight there). However it takes 35 min to get to Kings . Basically its easier to go to Barts in terms of travelling. But 35 min. is not that much is it?

Can go to Barts by car. But for Kings can't go by car due to congestion charge thingy- am I just being too lazy?Should I take this factor into account- considering that I'll have to go here for 6 years???

ALSO I've heard that Kings students have to go to Lewisham University Hospital- this is like really really far away (an hour at max) (will have to use like Blackwall tunnel...opp side of river Thames)... Also how often will I have to go to Lewisham hospital ??0

DISTANCE SHOULDN'T BE A CONSIDERATION WHEN THE DIFFERENCE IS SO SMALL. DO CONSIDER THOUGH THE COST OF TRAVEL. ALSO BEAR IN MIND THAT AT BOTH UNI'S YOU'LL HAVE THE CHANCE OF DISTANT PLACEMENTS. THE FURTHER ONE FROM BARTS YOU'LL HAVE (YR 3 ON) WOULD BE COLCHESTER I THINK, BUT THE OUTFIRMS OFTEN HAVE ACCOMMODATION.

2) TEACHING: In terms of teaching styles- Neither influence my decision as they both suit me. Integrated(mixture) or PBL, I don't mind either. And I've heard at Barts that PBL is ONLY 4 hours per week.


YEP, 4 HRS BUT YOU'RE EXPECTED TO DO THE WORK FOR THEM OUTSIDE OF THIS TIME. EXPECT LESS CONTACT TIME AT BARTS BUT IT DOES TEACH YOU HOW TO TEACH YOURSELF THINGS!

3) LEAGUE TABLES: However Kings is higher up the league tables compared to Barts. Kings is in the top 20 World unis. whilst Barts is in the top 100. But does this really matter. I mean, in the end all the students frm both unis. end up registering with the GMC (and obv. gaining an MBBS degree). So does this matter?

PERSONALLY I THINK LEAGUE TABLES ARE PRETTY ARBITRARY AS THEY'RE OFTEN BASED ON RESEARCH DONE, ON ENTRY CRITERIA, AND LOTS OF THINGS THAT DON'T DIRECTLY AFFECT HOW GOOD A DOCTOR YOU'LL BE WHEN YOU LEAVE. I DON'T THINK YOUR INSTITUTION IS ON YOUR MTAS APPLICATION SO IT WON'T INFLUENCE YOUR JOB AT THE END (UNLESS A NATIONAL EXAM COMES IN AND YOU THINK THAT ONE INSTITUTION TEACHES BETTER THAN ANOTHER)

4) GAP YEAR STUDENTS: Is this something I should look at. As I'm a forced Gap yr student myself...I don't want to be behind everyone by a year. Which university has a greater percentage of gap yearers?
BARTS HAS AROUND 25%+ OF EACH YR OF IT'S 5 YR COURSE MADE UP OF MATURE STUDENTS AND POSTGRADS, SO THERE'S ALL NATIONALITIES, AGES AND PEOPLE OF DIFFERING CIRCUMSTANCES.

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What to do? Which one. I've been to both open days, and yes I like both of the universities...plus all the med. students were friendly...

Is there anything else I should look at? Which wud u choose???

YES, YOU SHOULD THINK ABOUT HOW YOU FELT WHEN YOU ATTENDED THE OPEN DAYS. WHICH ONE DID YOU FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE AT? WHEN I WENT TO THE BARTS OPEN DAY I FELT THAT IT WAS A REALLY INCLUSIVE MED SCHOOL, WITH A REAL COMMUNITY FEELING TO IT. I CAN'T COMMENT ON KINGS, NOT HAVING BEEN THERE. BEAR IN MIND YOU'RE THERE 5 YEARS, SO YOU HAVE TO ENJOY IT!

FROM TALKING TO MY FRIENDS AT BOTH INSTITUTIONS KINGS COMES ACROSS AS BEING MORE AUSTERE, WITH LARGER CLASSES AND THE RISK OF THE NEW STUDENT FEELING SLIGHTLY ISOLATED ( ONE GIRL I KNOW WENT FOR THE FIRST TERM AND LEFT AT XMAS AS SHE STILL HADN'T MADE ANY FRIENDS) BUT IT'S REPUTATION IS GOOD, AND AS YOU SAY IT COMES HIGHER IN LEAGUE TABLES.
ON THE OTHER HAND I WOULD SAY THAT BARTS HAS A YEAR COHORT THAT IS MUCH SMALLER. YOU'RE BROKEN INTO DIFFERENT GROUPS THROUGHOUT YR 1 SO YOU GET TO MEET LOTS OF PEOPLE. CLINICAL CONTACT STARTS FROM MONTH 1. YOU GET CLINICAL PLACEMENTS FROM THE RICHER CITY TO SOME OF THE MOST DEPRIVED AREAS IN LONDON SO YOU SEE THE GAMUT OF DISEASES. THE SOCIAL LIFE IN BARTS IS LEGENDARY AND VERY STUDENT LED..

SO, MY VIEWS ARE OBVIOUSLY DEEPLY BIASED TO BARTS! BUT WITH BOTH YOU'LL GET AN EXCELLENT MEDICAL EDUCATION SO IT'S REALLY DOWN TO HOW YOU FELT ABOUT THEM?

BEST OF LUCK IN YOUR DELIBERATIONS..

Thanks in advance.
Kanya

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(you may have noticed this post in the GKT section some time ago but that's becoz I want to have an idea of what poeple in this sections of the forum say)

[minnako]

In the interests of procrastination, and because other people are asking the same question, I'll take a leaf out of Everhopeful's book and give a breakdown of my opinions:

1) Distance: In your case it's a fairly small, but not entirely insignificant difference in time to get from one place to another. In my opinion, you shouldn't let this be a concern if you honestly prefer Kings, but on the other hand, if you prefer Barts a bit this may swing you in it's favour. Commuting every day adds up, so it's an additional bonus if you pick Barts. There are plenty of people who commute for an hour every day to get to uni, (you just get used to it, and imagine all the reading time!) so 35 minutes is quite manageable.

2) Teaching: As was stated, Barts probably has less contact time (QM does in general), so it all depends on how good you are at teaching yourself and discipline when it comes to getting things done. PBL does have its drawbacks (lots of time taken, no direction so you're not sure what you need to know, it depends a lot on how well it's set etc) so if you don't feel like you're a really flexible person who enjoys uncertainty and self-teaching, traditional learning may work better. Of course, it depends on honestly seeing where you figure on teaching methods. It might not be a deal breaker for some people, some really won't care less, and some really hate one and like the other.

3) Reputation: I don't actually pay attention to league tables, so I can't talk about this. Both unis feel they're excellent, and both lead to a medical qualification. How hard you work whilst at uni, and how motivated you are when you leave are more important than where you get your degree from. Though, some people will prefer King's cos it's higher up. Each to their own...

4) Gap Year Students: as I said, Kings and Barts both have lots of mature students, grads, gap year students, etc. I don't think there's a huge difference between them, and I really doubt with just a year out you'll be unusual.

Things you might want to consider:

5) The Area: Some people like hustle and bustle, others don't. Barts is in a very different area to Kings, and you'll need to think about which you prefer. It could be that you don't care either way, or that you really like East London, or really like Central London. Again, no right answers, but you'll need to think about where you'll be spending the next 5 years. You plan to commute, but look at accomodation, because that may change in 5 years.

6) Social aspects: How integrated are communities? Are the medics aloof from the rest of the uni (at most unis, yes, they are. Just ask non-medics)? What societies are there, and how is the university organised? What is the local night life like? What are the opportunities for involvement in student politics or publishing? What is student support like? Counselling? Financial help? These are all important for some people, and you might want to think if these are important to you.

Final thoughts: I suggest visiting them both again, if you have time. Try to find people who go to one or the other medical schools (here or elsewhere) and ask them about their experience, but more importantly, try to form an opinion on what you would enjoy. If you've got any friends in a similar situation, take them along and have a walk around. Maybe even approach a student or two. You'll probably love it at either one, so it's all about trying to choose what feels best, and then accepting that choice once it's confirmed, and moving on.

Either way, you'll probably be happy, though there's always a chance of disappointment. Good luck with the choice!

[bennett]

1) DISTANCE: I think this is neglible. However if I had a choice and came from East London I think I would be annoyed over 6 years if I didnt go somewhere else like Kings.

2) TEACHING:The teaching isnt just four hours of PBL a week. It is a somewhat integrated course that was one of the first to embrace PBL teaching and continues to do so: A typical day at Barts

3) LEAGUE TABLES: It doesnt really matter but it often does to medical students 'such is the nature of the beast' - medical students that is!! Often high ranking research unis have excellent funds for resources and facilities. Barts afaik has money and has plans to spend much more.

4) GAP YEAR STUDENTS: Barts is brilliant for this having a relatively high percentage of gappers and post grads (higher than Kings I would say). However Kings is a much bigger course and so will have a lot of grads and matures too.

Another thing to note is that the Kings medical school despite being on a seperate campus is far more integrated with the rest of the college (students from other subjects). This is a great thing by my books.

Anyway, if I was in your shoes I would lean towards Kings simply 'cos its somewhere different than East London where you are from but you will enjoy both in all likelihood.

[Knowalot2]

@ Everhopeful = So u don’t need to mention which med. school you are from in the MTAS application??!? That's gr8 (will talk to other people 2 confirm as well)

@ Bennett = I don’t really mind staying in East London actually (considering that I’ve never studied at a school/6th form college in E. London ). Do u have any other reason for Kings rather than Barts (out of interest)?

@minnako = I’m going to the post-offer open day and will definitely talk to the students and profs.

@TimmyF = U and ‘Minnako’ are absolutely right. I’m going to forget about the Gap yr thing.
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Thank you all for the fantastic responses, I've read each and every one of these replies. I'm still deciding and will definitely take these factors into account. Thanks again.

At the moment I am slightly more likely to accept the Barts offer instead. But I'm going to wait a week b4 the UCAS deadline (to give myself more time) and then give them the final decision.

[Renal]

In terms of distance (live near East ham station)- Barts is just 15 min away frm my house... and v. v. easy to get to (district line goes straight there). However it takes 35 min to get to Kings . Basically its easier to go to Barts in terms of travelling. But 35 min. is not that much is it?

Barts is about 35 to 40 minutes on the H&C in the rush hour from East Ham. The London is 15 minutes. Remember that you'll have firms in Barts, London, Hom, Newham, Queens, King George, Whipps, S'end, Chelmo, Colchester...

Can go to Barts by car.

There's nowhere to park.

ALSO I've heard that Kings students have to go to Lewisham University Hospital- this is like really really far away (an hour at max) (will have to use like Blackwall tunnel...opp side of river Thames)... Also how often will I have to go to Lewisham hospital ??[/quote]GKT students won't just be going to Guys, they'll be going to hospitals between the Thames and the South Coast.

3) LEAGUE TABLES:

As you said, league tables mean very little to undergraduates or PG taught causes in general and mean even less to a medical student.

4) GAP YEAR STUDENTS:

It really doesn't matter to anyone.