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  1. #21
    Member andy2's Avatar
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    Smile

    1) Problems filling posts - the solution would be to train more doctors and encourage them into anaesthetics. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is exactly what is going to happen, most of these non-medical anaesthetists are going to come from existing health care professionals (ODPs, theatre nurses, ICU nurses etc..) as they have he experience and will want to extend their existing role. I think few people will train for this as a primary profession.

    2) The support of the royal college of anaesthetists - the college was told by the government either you support this programme or we will impose it without your input. Given the choice they decided that it was better to be involved and so be able to exert some control over the situation. This should not be interpreted as enthusiastic support for this idea and it is certainly far from popular amongst anaesthetists on the ground.

    3) length of time to train - 2.5 years, on top of a 3-4 year primary degree is 5.5-6.5 years. It takes five years to train a Dr, one year pre-reg and then you can start as an anaesthetic SHO who works under supervision, will rapidly be not restricted to straightforward cases, able to cover obstetrics, ICU and so forth. These non-medical anaesthetists will also not be cheaper than equivalent medical staff.

    This is not about feeling threatened or cynical, this is about what is right for patients, the development of future medical anaesthetists and a resistance to government inspired attempts to 'break up' the monopoly doctors have over medicine. I've done some anaesthetics during my training, large portions of it aren't tricky and I don't doubt that many people could perform a basic anaesthetic - but even easy anaesthetics can go wrong. The anaesthetists I've trained with have been doctors first and anaesthetists second, this foundation in medical training is vital.
    I see you have an offer for medical school -well done, enjoy your training. Once you've finished your training come back and tell us if you still think those without the benefit of that training can do our jobs.

    To end a quote from Robert Boyle -an early pioneer of anaesthesia of Boyle's machine fame " any fool can give an anaesthetic..............and that scares me"



  2. #22
    Junior Member lucyfrombristol's Avatar
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    As someone working closely with the Royal College of Anaesthetists and other Anaesthetists 'on the ground' to develop the national curriculum for the Anaesthetisia Practitioner programme I'm afraid that I have to disagree with you on your 2nd point. I accept that this sort of new role will not be welcomed by one and all, but the majority of forward thinking and open-minded Consultant Anaesthetists, including the immediate past president of the Royal College, are very supportive and certainly haven't been forced into that position. The impetus for the development of this role did not as you suggest come from the government, but from NHS trusts.

    One of the most enthusiastic, inspirational and supportive doctors I have worked with is a Consultant Anaesthetist and Senior Lecturer in Anaesthesia. He is also the project lead for this curriculum development. I think that he would be very disheartened by this attitude displayed by a junior doctor such as yourself.
    Bristol Year 5 (GEP Year 4)

  3. #23
    Member andy2's Avatar
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    with the greatest of respect your close involvement in this programme will have brought you into close contact with the most enthusiastic proponents - the feeling amoungst anaesthetists without a personal or vested interest is generally sceptical to totally opposed.

  4. #24
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    Wink Odp!

    Quote Originally Posted by correction_centre
    Absolutely.
    By the way, I decided to go for ODP rather than nurse training (even though you advised to do it the otherway round!) and I've got an offer to start in September at Huddersfield - I'm frantically trying to sort out my finances before the course starts! I'm actually quite nervous and excited about the whole thing and it's still 6 months away!

    I am studying at University of Huddersfield working at Calderdale Royal as Student ODP! It was the best thing I ever did!!!! Nothing to be nervous about it's fabulous!
    May I rest in peace????

  5. #25
    Senior Member weegie neurosurgeon's Avatar
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    i find out next week if im gonna be a student ODP woopee

    Ive just been interviewed for university of surrey ODP course last friday and it went quite well. My ex other half is being interviewed for the same course next month. We would both be over the moon to get on as it seems to be the way forward in theatres. Besides the fact it seems the only nationally recognised anaesthetic/theatre qualification. As a nurse working in theatres already i would say the odp course is better in that it gives you a good grounding in all aspects of peri operative care. Much better than some of the post reg nursing courses which arent even recognisable between different nhs trusts.

    I do believe that oor chris (correction_centre) is ecstatic about getting on the course at huddersfield. He's even told me to apply although i believe the course is full for this year. You never know might be working with you in the very near future.

    Oh before i forget they have already started advertising for non medical anaesthetic practitioners in wolverhampton. It looks like the pilot project of new ways of working in anaesthesia is going to be up and running in the next few months. Here's to us doing that job in a few years time!

    Good luck, char
    Love is a medicine for the sickness of the world; a prescription often given, too rarely taken.

  6. #26
    Junior Member lucyfrombristol's Avatar
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    Fair enough andy2, I take your point
    Bristol Year 5 (GEP Year 4)

  7. #27
    Junior Member african_anesthetist's Avatar
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    listen Andy2...
    I remember that there was a time when people had to study Medicine and then specilize in Pharmacy or Dentestry.. but now they are seprate medical fields.. I trully believe that the same could happen with Anesthesia... It could be an Anesthetic practitioner programm..
    But who knows waht could happen in 20-30 years.

  8. #28
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    It sounds like sour grapes from Andy2 - a very backwards point of view. Still, I can understand why he wants to protect his own profession and investment in medical school training. However, the new anaesthetic practioner program isn't about undermining medically qualified anaesthetists, but rather improving their work by delegating tasks to practioners working under their supervision.

    It's completely out of order to write off a whole new group of people because they haven't taken the traditional route through medical school. Andy2 knows nothing about potential candidates aptitude or academic ability. Many clever and able people choose not to go to medical school for their own reasons. This shouldn't stop them undertaking specialist training if they are capable of succeeding and the training program offers the correct level of education and practice.

  9. #29
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    I totally agree with you correction_centre. See you at Hudd on your first day!
    May I rest in peace????

  10. #30
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    hi Paula,
    you have mail.......!

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